As requested I'm starting a new thread on the latest Happenings on Health Care Reform.
The new House Health Care Bill or The Affordable Health Care for America Act
appears to be a combination of the three prior versions of bills passed by the house. and the cost is a mere $894 billion over 10 years -- below the $900 billion ceiling recommended by the White House. House leaders hope to have the bill on the House floor next week, with a vote, if all goes well, before Veterans Day, Nov. 11.
What do you think?
I found a summary of it at
http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/10/affordable-health-care.shtml
If you would like to read all 1990 pages of the bill, help yourself and follow the link below
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
And the sad part, is that most people want to be "politically correct" and not speak up and stand up for their freedoms, for fear of offending someone ! You know what they say : "When good people do nothing......"
Loved the comment, "Hell no, I won't be forced..." They are working very hard to erode our rights.
You're right Moose about the chips. It all starts out as "being for our own good"........scary stuff on the horizon.
Doesn't it boggle your mind to get a bill after having a procedure and seeing that you "saved" this huge amount off of your bill just because you have a certain type of insurance that. That isn't what the doctors are being paid but what they agree to discount the procedure to because you carry insurance and they are affiliated with the insurance company. Imagine the guy who doesn't have insurance at all. Why can't these doctors offer the same to them because this discounted fee is money never seen by anyone. The insured patient still has to meet their deductible. They still have to choose between affording to go to the doctor or feeding their children and by forcing an insurance or go to jail mentality there are going to be people that are going to not fit the criteria for public assistance but who are really going to be hurt by not being able to afford their insurance, their medication, etc.
This is a band aid approach to a larger problem.
What is everyone going to do when the government decides to start putting those new microchip implants into everyone they came up with years ago. They tooted them on the news as how they could save lives because they could hold your entire medical record and all the doctors would have to do would be scan the chip to access it.
Add GPS and they know where you are 24/7 etc. How will it start?
"Oh, we just want to put them into prisoners in case they escape so we can find them easier." "Maybe parents can put them into their kids at birth so that if they are ever abducted they can easily be found." "It could save your life".
Yes, off on a tangent. When Government oversteps themselves it's up to the people to let them know and keep them in line. We have so many freedoms in this country that have been fought for and too hard won to hand over lightly. The liberal hippy generation had the freedom to say, "Hell no, we won't go! but they want to take away your freedom to say, "Hell no, I won't be forced to purchase substandard insurance for health insurances sake or go to jail!"
Sorry, somehow hit submit before I was done.
Some great comments and I'm really happy to see how many others are against Gov run health care. Apparently Bart Gordon got the message as well!
Comparing this to care insurance is not quite accurate. For one thing, insurance is required by states (not the FED), and is only required if we want to exercise our privelege to drive. I have the OPTION of not buying it WITHOUT going to jail. I just can't drive. This insurance is being mandated without any exception. You pay or you pay!
Also, Medicare is not something you purchase at 65. You pay for this bloated, inefficient, government boondoggle every day or your working life. You will probably only get a small fraction of what you put in.
There are many other ways to reduce health insurance costs, and a Government Option should NOT be one of them. If you'd like to see the playing field leveled, why not make doctors and hospitals publish their fees? Does anyone know what a procedure costs BEFORE having it? Have you ever been able to shop around before getting something done.
I have a personal example of what this could mean to us, the consumer. I had foot surgery by Dr. A, a podiatrist. He charged me $2000 with a promise to refund the money when the insurance paid off (which he did). Guess how much he recieved from the insurance Co? $134! My question was, why not charge me $134? Next, I had a more complicated surgery performed by an orthopedic surgeon who specialized in feet and ankles. His charge? $800. Now, assuming both are legit and well trained (which they are) who would you go to if you had the choice? Do you think either doctor advertises his fees? Of course not!!
There are a large number of books with great ideas for health care reforrm that don't involve taking our money and giving it to someone else. Have we heard any of them? No. The project is being written behind closed doors (Congressional Leadership and the President seem to have rewritten the definition of transparency?
Hopefully, (maybe I'm naive)Gordon and the less radical members of the party will get the message that we are tired of Government trying to dictate all aspects of our lives. Let the Fed concentrate on doing things they are constitutionally ALLOWED to do, and stay out of the rest. In the meantime, we have to keep the pressure on.
....and watch out for your guns! They're next!
This isn't total government control. We have established that we must all have car insurance and face consequences if caught without it. That is to keep others from having to pay for something you may break and cannot afford to fix. One of the reasons health care is so expensive is because so many people go with out medical coverage (they cannot afford it, or won't afford it). Then they have heart attacks and strokes diabetes untreated for years etc. They get treated and then can never pay..Someone HAS to pay..
If you cannot take care of yourself you should not look for others to take care of you. But the playing field has to be adjusted and insurance companies put in check. We should all equally have the opportunity to get health insurance without going broke. The government are a group of evil morons and they always have been. If any other groups can even come close its the insurance companies and attorneys.
Going to jail for not having health insurance doesn't make any sense to me. Sure, you lose your freedom, but you get 3 meals a day and FREE health care to boot. I can see our jails becoming severely overcrowded! LOL But if the gov't is going to make us have health insurance, there should be a cap on what we have to pay.
What makes me mad about the whole car insurance thing is this: if you're going to get a ticket or possible jail time for not having it after an accident or traffic stop, why don't you have to have it to license a car or renew your drivers license? Any Joe Bob can get tags for his car as long as it passes emissions but he doesn't have to have insurance until he has a wreck or gets pulled over. Proof that the honor system doesn't work.
I find it hard to understand people who think this whole Gov't option thing is a good idea, yet will acknowledge that Medicaid and Madicare are a mess and social security is a mess. They will also acknowldge that the Gov't has even botched getting this Vaccine out to people, the same Gov't who couldn't figure out a way to get a simple bottle of water in to New Orleans after Katrina.
Even after all of this, they still think the Gov't should have control of Healthcare? Give me a break! If you really think the Gov't should control healthcare and can do a better job of it, then you deserve what you get!
Nancy Pelosi compared the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later. You are required to pay those also. They are in fine shape, aren't they?
Well, the point is, we are required to buy insurance in order to drive our cars.
As soon as we turn 65, we are required to buy Medicare, too, aren't we ?
You are required to have liability insurance to cover the other driver in an accident. You don't have to cover yourself.
I couldn't make this stuff up....LOL...here's a little about Tennessee's...........
The State of Tennessee requires anyone driving on the public roads in the State to have insurance. If you don't have insurance, Tennessee does not want you to drive and will therefore suspend anyone's DL whenever TN finds out someone does not have insurance. (The most common ways the State learns of that is through accident reports and Court Citation reports.)
To avoid having City Court report that 'you' do not have insurance, you must show City Court Proof of Insurance before you complete final payment on your Citation. If you do not own a vehicle, you might check into being added to someone else's policy or purchasing a "Non-Owner's Insurance" policy. Not every insurance company sells that type of insurance, so you may need to ask around, but most companies sell it. ("Non-Owner's Insurance" is basic insurance a person who does not own a vehicle might purchase so as to have insurance coverage when driving.)
No, Bart didn't tell me that....LOL
I thought it was a state law, that's all....aren't we required to show evidence of proof of insurance if pulled over by a cop and they ask for it ? I'm sure there's some punishment if you don't have it...and I think I've heard of people being jailed for failure to produce it !
Did Bart tell you that or did you make it up? No offense just asking? Because I've received two emails from Bart in the last week, the first in over a year, I think He's worried about opposition next year, just my opinion.
What about car insurance ? Can't you go to jail or be fined for not having car insurance, too ?
Judy,
If you have "asked" someone not to post "sermons" yet you have a link where people can talk about God, don't you see that to be a little confusing?
Anyway, I hope everyone is getting their money ready. If you don't purchase insurance, according to the bill recently passed by Congress, you can actually go to jail???
Tony Willet- How do you know they voted the way Jesus wanted them to?
Mike has NOT been banned from the blog, this has been addressed already. The links on the right have been there before Mike, and will continue to be there.
Mike Callis is banned? Since when? I thought he was just asked to stop posting so many sermons.
Charlie, Judy,
if pastor Mike Callis has been banned from posting on this blog, why do you still have a God link to the right of the page?
Bart dosen't know what he just did. So, you think he got it right, huh ?
Bart finally got it right, do you think he's worried about the election in 2010---or did he just wake up!!
Hey,
i am a reporter with a newspaper in Gallatin and I was wondering if anyone knew of any veterans that may have been stationed at Fort Hood in Texas. They don't necessarily need to be their right now, but we're looking to do a story on the killing down there.
If you do know of someone, can I get there contact information?
Here is a list of how each House member voted on this bill. Bart Gordon, who represents our district, voted against the bill.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll887.xml
Never been denied emergency room treatment. Always had to pay a gigantic bill afterward also. ER will only keep you from dying. Then they send you home to your own devices. So without follow up treatment one may end up right back in the ER paying more outrageous bills. I rarely get sick or hurt. But my children and wife are what I worry about anyway.
Yes I have dealt with government agencies. I was in the Army long ago..Government ran agencies are never present. This would only be a government option. Not take over as so many have stated. If given the choice between Blue Cross (just example) and some government insurance. I'm going with Blue Cross. But the government option would be beneficial if it is all I can afford. Insurance companies already decide what tests and procedures you get in a lot of cases.
Once I could afford to get real insurance I would drop the governments. Finally congress have exempted themselves from participation for a coupe of reasons..Special interests like the insurance companies. And 2010 is an election year, nobody in the house and senate wants to risk not being reelected.
Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.
In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”
Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:
“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]
“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]
Criminal penalties
Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:
• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]
When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.
“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.
According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.
Last night, I prayed to Jesus that our Congress would deliver us true health care reform. I think that the House voted the way Jesus wanted them to. The Bible says pray for our leaders. I did, and I thank them for representing us the way Jesus wants them to. Health care to those who can't afford it is God's way.
Why should businesses be required to offer the insurance and if they don't then they have to pay an 8% fee on their total payroll? businesses already pay, unemployment tax, workers comp tax, and matching ss tax on employee wages. I certainly hope they have some exemptions for smaller businesses. And why is it this bill / insurance isnt good enough for congress? if it's good enough for the rest of the US it's good enough for them too! And just when would be the effective date should all this or anything similar get passed, 2014 I think I once heard!
Thanks Portland Watcher! I absolutely think you SHOULD comment. Just because we occasionally screw up our meanings or intentions should not prevent us from "talking". If I worried about that all the time, I'd never open my mouth or touch my keyboard (bet that would make some folks happy).
I left this blog for about a year after some kind soul expressed his/her wish that I die. Now, I just think the issues are too important to stay silent. I don't expect total agreement, and welcome dissenting comments because they may make me see something I've missed. We just need to discuss the issues without making, or taking personal attacks.
Hope to hear more from you
I'm sorry you don't have medical coverage, but I have a few questions to ask you. They are not meant to be sarcastic or mean spirited, but your answers may help clarify some things.
First, have you ever been denied medical treatment for a serious illness or injury?
Next, Have you ever had to deal with a government agency? If so, was it a ever a pleasant experience? With all the problems we see in government programs, do you think that a government healthcare system would be good for ANYONE? Would you want the government deciding what tests or procedures you need?
Finally, if this bill is so good for us, why has Congress exempted themselves from participation?
?
Chuck -- Thanks - I appreciate that. I really shouldn't have commented. I apologize, too.
Ithink - I certainly hope a healthcare bill passes, too - one that will afford everyone healthcare. My feeling is that if we can send billions and billions, trillions overseas and build and re-build nations and fund all these senseless wars, we can d*** well afford healthcare for our citizens.
I don't see how anyone can be against that.
Also, if you go back in the blog --- you will never have seen ME talk about a bake sale anywhere ! LOL LOL
I like this blog because many topics across a broad spectrum are discussed. Local people talk about national events, especially ones this huge. Wouldn't be much fun if all we talked about were bake sales at Clyde Riggs. I hope some type of bill passes that will lower health care costs. I have no insurance and have had none for years..not offered to me by my employment and no way I can afford family coverage on my income.
Please don't do that. I stayed away from this site for that very reason. I really apologize for misinterpreting your comments. I find this type of "stuff" much more interesting than local happenings, but don't expect everyone to share my interest. One of the problems with this type of communication. If we'd been talking in person, I probably wouldn't have missed your meaning. I just misunderstood what you were saying and again, my sincere apologies.
If you knew me, you would know that I am as interested in this country's events and happenings as you are. I simply said I thought the blog was more interesting when the issues were kept local, that's all.
I'm very interested in the health care issue --- discussing it here on the blog won't solve the problem -- I don't believe we get to vote on it.
I didn't know where else to comment -- now, I see I shouldn't have commnented at all. ( how dumb of me to believe in freedom of speech )
I should have known...............the response it would bring.
I think it's probably big enough for everyone. If you're not interested, ignore it. Some of us are interested in what's happening in the rest of the country, and the world.
Like it or not, this health care "reform" will affect all of us. I asked for this in hopes of hearing how others feel and to start a discussion in order to see what others think. I know I'm against it, but would like to hear why some are for it and perhaps share my thoughts with others who are interested. If you're not, read something else.
I think the Blog is a lot more interesting when it's kept on local issues in and around Portland.