Portland, Tennessee Blog

Now, that we have enough names....let's get out and VOTE this time so we have enough VOTES !!

This is GREAT news, Thank You Jody!!

For all of y'all who might be wondering, the remainder of the petitions were turned in today. The county election office called and advised we have more than enough names! Thanks for everyon'e help, hopefully we can keep this campaign on a fair level. Lets all please respect each other's position on this issue. Thanks again, Jody

Do we have anyone in town that consumes meat? Do we have anyone who plays golf? Does anyone go to the laundry mat? Does anyone have dogs for pets? Consume alcohol?

I am vegetarian, do not play golf do not understand why people do, would not go to the pool hall to play pool and don't drink alcohol.

So please prohibit the sale of meat in our grocery store "I don't eat it", use the space the golf course is on for something useful "I don't play golf", close down the laundry mat "I have laundry factilities have home", Ban dogs from the city limits please "I'm allergic to dogs". Alcohol "had heart surgery couldn't drink even if I wanted".

My point we all are faced with outside forces in our life that we might not approve or agree with but we should all keep an open mind about the future of Portland. It is statiscally proven that communities that allow the sale of alcohol experience growth. Just because you don't - doesn't mean you have to even when you cast a vote allowing others to participate in something you don't like. One thing certain every citizen will benefit from the increase in tax revenue generated!

Yep Portland Fan, Beth's right. I did the story a few years ago. Same as for buying a car. If you buy it in Kentucky, you owe the additional sales tax when you get to TN.

Portland Fan, according to this link, if the sales tax here is 9.25% and KY is 6%, we should be filing a tax claim to make up the difference. I dont know if this is true or not, but how scary is this???

http://www.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/tennessee_tax_on_out-of-state_purchases_applies_to_groceries/16969/

Daniel, your comment stops short of the full explanation and may confuse some. You are not supposed to pay tax on things you buy in KY and bring to TN UNLESS you weren't charged tax by the supplier. Those who visit Franklin KY to buy things and pay the KY tax on them are not also subject to TN use tax. Those things aren't to be double-taxed as your statement might lead one to believe. That issue pertains mostly to internet and mail order sales on which no state tax is paid in many cases.

The state people told me a couple of years ago they believe with more people using credit and debit cards for purchases, they will be able to track spending in the future and collect on the taxes. I guess we should act like Phillip Fulmer with his recruits...cash only. Sorry, that was a cheap shot.
Hey Coker, where was my congratulatory phone call when my Cats swept the season series from UT last week?

You don't want to tax toilet paper. That is one thing I want to be sure EVERYONE can afford...lol. Also, it might drive up the demand for corn as people might turn to cobbs for that particular function.

can you imagine what would happen if they did enforce that
maybe it should be the next idea for revenue if liquor fails

You're actually supposed to pay taxes on anything you buy in Kentucky and bring back to Tennessee over I think $10 in cost. But nobody does it as it's almost impossible to enforce.

I still say we could just up the tax on toilet paper....everyone uses that. Theres a revenue idea.......

I honestly believe what hurts Portland more than anything is being so close to Kentucky. With KY having a much lower tax rate *sales and the no tax on unprepared food*, it just kills this town. If there was a way to compromise between the two states *which Im sure wont happen* it would help Portland and other towns so close to the border tremendously. I really dont think LBTD is going to change everything, but at least other options could be made available as to eating establishments. DG said that folks dont *don't drive to Gallatin and Rivergate to eat and drink and then come home. They want to watch a movie, go to Lowes, then stop by Wal-Mart before coming home so they stop at one of these places to eat.* Personally , we go to Bowling Green to eat, and THEN stop by other places because of the tax break, but Im sure that folks go to Gallatin just to eat, maybe not all the time, but Im sure it happens. It just would be nice to have something other than fast food and pizza every once in a while, but then again, we do own a gas grill and my husband is an excellent cook :)

DG-What's your idea for generating revenue? Is trying something not better than doing nothing?
At the end of the day, Portland is a clean little town with nice streets and low crime. You can't ask for too much more. But many people want quality of life projects and they are looking for ideas to get revenue and they see LBTD as one way of getting it. To me, it's not a moral issue. It's a liberty issue. But I don't think either side will really change its view.
I agree with your assertions about Portland's rise in population but don't you think if Portland had something to offer beyond two or three places to eat, more of that money would stay in Portland as opposed to Gallatin? Who really wants to drive 30 minutes down the road to get something to eat? By passing this, you automatically put more revenue in the city through liquor and Sunday beer sales. You morals will not have been compromised, as you can simply not eat or drink at a place that serves liquor.

I also got a call from citizens for change the lady I spoke with was very kind and courteous
certainly not begging by no means they simply noted who they were and the reason for calling registered voters in portland was their petition to get this on the elections in may and asked if it was something I support
when I said i'de rather not sign a petition
they thanked me ever so kindly for my time and hoped I have a very nice day
I only wished the calls I got for the big election were that brief and considerate

So,were there enough signatures to get the LBTD referendum on the ballot?

I think its a shame that a community thinks it has to turn to liquor to get money. Restaurants come and go in this city and alcohol isn't going to change that. How long has the Panther Den been here, liquor free. What about El Azteca, liquor free. I was furious to receive a begging phone call asking me to sign a petition.

People don't drive to Gallatin and Rivergate to eat and drink and then come home. They want to watch a movie, go to Lowes, then stop by Wal-Mart before coming home so they stop at one of these places to eat. Portland's population has doubled in the last 10-15 years without LBTD so there is something else that is attracting them here.

I am ecstatic to hear they are having a hard time getting 238 people to support this and if like in the past it appears on the ballot, I will vote against it. I serve a higher purpose than liquor and I hope it fails again. This referendum has failed and failed again. If you want to serve the community then listen to what it has said. NO! This has been shot down time and time again so stop wasting our time and money and come up with a better idea to generate revenue.

*Comment has been edited by administration
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Well, I don't know how they do it, but I have signed a lot of petitions online for political things....maybe they were not real....hadn't thought of that. Oh well.....just thought it was worth mentioning.

Well, I really appreciate y'all's thought on the online petition. We asked about that 2 years ago. They actually physically check each and every signature to make sure they match and are authentic. I wish it were that easy! :o) If you get a chance and haven't already seen it, go to the home pageof this blog and click on "alcohol" on the right. There is a little fake petition we put there a couple years ago. It was kind of interesting to see the response it received.

Jody...I agree that putting the petition online would be an excellent idea if it is possible to get signature authorities....surely there is a computer guru that knows how to do that!

Jody, would it be possible to put the petition online ? It may be too late for this time, but maybe the Citizens for Change should have a website and put the petition on it...........

HELP HELP HELP!!! This has been the worst year for getting names on these petitions. We have people making phone calls every night and on saturday. The files we got from the election commission are so outdated, 19 out of 20 phone numbers are worthless. Our deadline is drawing near, and we have got to have some help! It takes 238 names, and we've been working a month now and have less than 100!!! If you can get signatures from registered voters, please call 323-7841. Please leave a message if there's no answer! Thanks

KAS, are you referring to the LBTD vote? If so, I'm not sure how you could've missed it. There were signs up everywhere "For" and "Against" it! Do you not remeber the signs that said "Ye be holy"? There is a group called "Portland Citizens for a change" They mailed out postcards to a select number of voters. Here is how we determined who to mail to: (this may not always be the best method, but you'll see in a mnute why we do this) We obtained a list of voters in Portland. You ALL would be surprised at the breakdown. By using Microsoft Access, we can list ALL people in Portland who are registered to vote. Then we can see WHEN and WHERE they vote. (Of course we can't see HOW they voted) To make a long story short, there are 5,172 voters, and only 2,095 have voted in the past 10 years in a "Portland" election. Actually in the last city election (2007) only 1,324 people voted! What's wrong with this picture? I think it's an absolute shame! So, instead of spending money to mail to 5,172 voters, we mailed to the 2,095 who we KNOW have voted in a "Portland" election at some time or another. I say all this to say, GET YOUR LAZY BUTT OUT AND VOTE! and tell all your friends and neighbors who don't vote to go also! (KAS that wasn't directed to you, just people in general).

KAS, are you a Portland city resident? This referendum will/should be on the City Election ballot held in May

You didn't see all the signs around town? LOL

Last time the vote was held, we never even heard about it......when it was, where it was. Not sure why but we are registered voters and were totally unaware of any voting going on. Hopefully we will be made aware of it this time.

no sir P W not a fence sitter. we live out in Robertson county (wayyyyyyyyyyy out !) & been involved in politics before. never again ! my mother in law is from NE Arkansas where every other county is bone dry. they have a major problem with ABC officers there. the "gin joints" are just over different county lines & a few are beyond rough. flat out dangerous actually. in some parts having a lottery is a hot button topic. us personally I'd love to see it pass. there's a wine that comes in a "box" for around $10 up north & is very good quality. without exposure to air the shelf life in incredibly long. that & a lil secret having Italian heritage nothing goes better with a grilled steak than a nice dry glass of chianti. I won't go into the vodka discussion due to the octane increase {LOL} but a good Polish potato vodka is a nice alternative in the summer with lemonade, cranberry juice, guava nectar. anyone who's ever been to a Polish wedding knows what I mean ! if we do have a complaint or bone up our backside on what isn't here it's a bowling alley. miss those Saturday nites a lot !!!

GOMER, I know what you mean. We've had several out of state folks who googled our town and then emailed me to inquire about all the negativity on this blog. I told them it was a nice town, we loved living here and this was just a form of expression where folks can say whatever...

Gomer...are you saying that one shouldn't express his opinions on a blog ??? Isn't that what a blog is for ?
So what if everyone in the world reads it....Portland is what it is.
Sounds like you enjoy sitting on fences and never taking a stand.

Maybe you are running for City Council ??

this much we can say having lived up north for ....40 years give or take. everyone we know drinks. around here we've heard all the tales of blame the SBC or the COC. back up there an unpopular measure usually gave way to blame the Catholic church. we get many E-mails, phone calls, letters,....from friends & family about Portland. sometimes apparantly on a search engine the town blog is the first thing to show up & people from hundreds of miles away read this forum. not giving any names, detailed questions, .....just remember everybody that we are not the only ones who read & follow this blog. we're not from here, we don't plan on retiring here, if we do have an opinion of here we keep it to ourselves. very nice little community with their own way of thinking, their own version of right & wrong, their own....you get the idea. "their" meaning the town/community as a whole, not labelling anyone or specifying this from that, us vs. them, just a ....general sense of plurality. good luck with all your future endeavors in making this town what ya'll want it to become. you have a very nice foundation to either build upon or remain as is. have a great weekend !!!

The LBTD issue will always be a controversial one for Portland, TN and any other town/city that doesn't already have it passed. I do not see allowing LBTD as the answer to all of Portland's financial woes, however, I do see it as a progressive stepping stone toward a more upscale and modern community. I am not a heavy drinker, but I do enjoy an occasional Margarita or ice cold beer. Everyone has their problems with irresponsible drinkers, whether you allow your restaurants to serve it or not, and the question arises "is Portland ready to handle the responsiblity as a community?" People who abuse alcohol will do so no matter what, as the saying goes.."where there is a will, there is a way" and allowing alcohol to be sold in eating establishments will not aggravate that issue any more than selling it by the bottle or gallon or case. Selling alcohol will not change the christianity of a community nor will it make all churchgoers alcoholics. I am not a regular church goer, but I do believe in God and just because I drink a Margarita or beer once in a while does not change that. Progressive business decisions that would allow potential revenue into the community will not "ruin" the city. It is up to the citizens of Portland to be responsible, set governing laws in place and to adhere to them. Obviously not everyone is going to be responsible, but they aren't anyway. Personally, I would like to see the Hwy 31 @ Hwy 52 intersection become a "booming" area, with resturaunts, outlet mall, etc. As I have said before, the people on I-65 will get off the Interstate with the incentive of close places to eat, shop, etc.

Oh let me clarify something....I meant that the Hitching Post could be selling FOOD and beer, not JUST beer. :)

Tim, I think these regulations are what "defines a restaraunt". Number 6 is for the places that may only be open for breakfast but still want to be qualified as a restaraunt. What the ABC needs to do is define the regulations for "restaraunts who want to apply for an ABC permit". Such as your food revenue has to be a certain percentage higher than your alcohol revenue in order to keep your license. It might not prevent mom and pop from opening a *bar* but it would certainly prevent them from just selling alcohol. Ive never been in the *Hitching Post*, but Im assuming that is a bar atmosphere that just sells beer, so Im not sure what the problem is if they started LBD too. Apparently beer bars are ok around here :)

notalwaysfromhere - I can understand your fears, the unknown is always something we do a double take on. My thoughts on your concerns is that their primary business as noted in #7 must be serving food. And I ask how have other cities fared with this same concern, I'm not sure. I only go to certain places in other towns to shop and eat, not in the nature of bars, but restaurants, so I really don't have a clue.

And I understand you frustration on this issue, really I do! To think we are going thru all this again because it failed by only 5 votes is frustrating period.

Yes Tim, that is what the website lists, I included the link to where I got it from, When I saw it, I knew concerns would come up about #6, Did I not post the information that I found, NO. Keep in mind #7 states their primary business "must" be in serving "food". Seating capacity in "tables" must be atleast 75, and employ suffecient staff for preparing, cooking and serving food. Maybe you can find out or already know, How have other cities turned out that have to work under these same regulations, are they seeing bars and not restaurants? I do quite a bit of shopping in Rivergate, Gallatin, and Hendersonville, all of which have to go by the same regulations, I personally haven't seen it, but I don't look for it either so I'm not sure.

Judy, did I read that right. In order to be a "food serving establishment that served liquor" and not "a bar" you just have to serve one meal a day four days a week?

How hard would it be for a bar to meet that criteria? And this really worries me because the way I understand it, if LBTD is passed, there is no local control over it. It is controlled by the State. I'm pretty sure that's right.

So basically as long as they serve four meals a week, they can get a liquor license? Jody, or anyone who may know for sure, please tell me if I am wrong about this.

Unfortunately, those requirements (esp.#6) haven't calmed my "bar behind my house" fear.
I forgot to vote last time (honestly).
I would have voted no.
I will probably "forget" to vote this time deliberately.
Really, in a way even though I'm not for LBTD, I kinda hope it passes just so you all can find something new to fuss about. Some of you might even quit bashing churchs & Christians.
May all your "dreams" of LBTD come true. The wonderful places to wine and dine & city coffers that runneth over.
Just afraid the opposite will happen myself.
Sorry, so bitter. It is just that I have read about this for so long my funny bone has snapped.

Judy,

Thanks for the info.

Beth,
I'll try to answer some of your questions but I dont by ant means have all the answers. In TN, LBTD and package stores are 2 different things I think. You mentioned Gallatin having both, and they had package stores long before they had LBTD. As for selling wine @ the grocery, there is a bill coming up on Capitol hill that would make that possible, so we need to contact our local legislators and make our voice heard or else the liquor lobby will block it again. Your other item was about the ability to serve LBTD outside the city limits. I believe this is allowed, and regulated by the county, but dont quote me on that. I just dont think anyone has tried it yet. But if memory serves me,I think that the Sugar Grove Tavern applied for a liquor license once upon a time but got re-jected based on the nature of their,um, clientele and the amount of police calls that go out to that area on the weekends. Maybe someone should check into what it takes to open a "private club" here in town. Kinda like the Legion or the golf course, since you can buy LBTD at these two places.

Judy,
I too think we already have all the same issues that the anit LBTD crowd always raises. I would like to see some data showing what the increase in all these areas have been in our little hamlet, not just over the past 2 years, but lets say over the past 5 or 8 years. Compare that data to areas that have LBTD(Gallatin, Cookeville, H'Ville, Franklin, B.G. for example) for the same time period. Then ask, can these increases be solely attributed to LBTD or is it simply that as a population increases, you get a certain percentage of bad apples? Maybe Jody, Charlie and Tim Coker could help with this since they seem to be good at collecting data!:)

notalwaysfromhere - I copied the following from
http://www.tennessee.gov/abc/lbdrequire.html

Tennessee Alcoholic Beverage Commission
Information for Restaurants
REQUIREMENTS (T.C.A. 57-4-102(19)(A))

1. A public place kept, used, maintained, advertised and held out to the public as a place where meals are served and where meals are actually and regularly served.

2. Without sleeping accommodations.

3. Supplied with adequate and sanitary kitchen and dining room equipment.

4. Seating capacity of at least seventy-five (75) at tables.

5. Employing a sufficient number and kind of employees to prepare, cook and serve suitable food.

6. Serve at least one (1) meal a day at least four (4) days a week.

7. Serving of meals shall be the principal business conducted

Daniel,
You know they say the eyes are the first to go; then again, maybe I was reading with preconceived notions.
Ever had that problem?

Mike, I think your reading is a little fuzzy. I don't see anywhere that I bashed christians. But as for God taking back the Israelites, He only did so after punishing them, lest we forget.

What are the rules going to be for an establishment to obtain a license to serve LBTD? Who will be enforcing these rules?
Will some not so nice places slip thru a loophole because of connections?
My greatest fear, if LBTD passes, is not that nice resturants will get licenses, it's that some dishonest people will try to open "bars" pretending to be restuarants.

We went to Franklin this evening and tried out the American Bistro Bar & Grill, pretty nice place, food was good and plenty of it, has quite a few selections of chicken and fish on the menu, but no philly cheese steak :( they also have a kids menu, very clean, nice wait staff. The most empty tables while we were there was 3 out of about 24. There were families there with children, it is all non-smoking, saw a few drink orders going out of the bar but not many. I also observed several TN Sumner county license plates, lots from KY and some from out of area, and people walking over from the Hotels. Nice to have another option without having to go to BG or Hendersonville, however, I've yet to find any place that compares to Cheddars at the Villages of Indian Lake - Love um!!

Beth...yes, it is......meet you at the Brickyard .....let's go give Franklin, KY more tax money so they can keep improving their nice town ! LOL LOL

Is it 5 o'clock somewhere....I think I need a drink! *LOL*

Thanks Daniel, I appreciate the clarification. Except...how does Gallatin get both LBTD and liquor stores? This is all so confusing and not to mention strange, I guess trying to explain the ABC laws of TN is like trying to explain gravity :)

Daniel,
You just made my point about this process.
The topic was LBTD, but you had to bash Christians and this country. You talk tolerance, but you seem to fail to exhibit it.
You know that the country and the people of Israel did a lot of wrong, but God kept taking them back and He called them His beloved. I love God and I love this country and I have no problem in doing both.

Romans 3:23 tells us we have all sinned and come short of God's glory; based on your theory we could not interact with anyone ever.

Matthew 9:12-13 tells us that God desires mercy and not sacrifice. I am against people living together outside of marriage, but they are still my friends.

They got on to Jesus for hanging around drunks, prostitutes, and others of immoral character; but He went where the sin was; he ate with them; and he visited in their homes.
Try not to judge everyone's faith and motives based on the bad experiences you have had.

And Daniel, God really does love and care for you. He demonstrated that great love with the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ on the cross.
God Bless You.

Beth,
LBTD and package liquor sales are different. I think the county has control over LBTD outside city limits. LBTD is just for restaurants and city council meetings :). Wine is considered a spirit so it's with liquor, I believe.
Basically if LBTD passed, Sunday beer sales would be permitted and restaurants could apply for permits to sell liquor. Package liquor sales, such as a liquor store, still wouldn't be allowed.

I would still like for someone to explain a couple of things to me. Why beer is sold in grocery stores but not wine? Why cant there be LBTD establishments outside the city limits? I am truly curious to the answers. Every where I have ever lived has these things, and one place I lived you can not only get gas at the gas station, you can get beer AND liquor....but the lottery was immoral. *Thats another discussion altogether..lol*

To answer my own question, I would say no. The heart of patriotism is tolerance and freedom for all. Homosexuals, racists, abortion-havers, alcohol drinkers...anything that doesn't break a law. Christianity isn't that tolerant. We are taught that God loves all, but doesn't accept many of the things listed above. I think people set the best example by how they live their own lives and the decisions they make, not by forcing their will on others.
Morality and politics will always be intertwined, but Biblical law and the constitution are miles apart.

I just think Mike if you like to eat at these places, you are always going to look hypocritical in the eyes of some because they serve alcohol, but you say you are against that. Let's say a terrorist owns a legitimate oil field. You own a gas station. The company you buy gas from knows that this oil supplier is a terrorist, but says hey, I'm just buying oil, what's wrong with that?
My point is the terrorist is going to use the oil money and the money he makes from selling weapons for the same thing. Just like a restaurant owner is going to use the money he makes selling cokes and hamburgers to continue to operate a business that sells alcohol.
So if you said to me, I'm morally against the sell of alcohol, it would naturally seem you would be against the sell of it anywhere and would not support a business that does.
I guess this begs the question: Can you be a true patriot and a faithful christian at the same time?

The little story of the numbers was just to show the level of degradation of some of the comments.

Why can't one person say I am for it because I would like to drink?
Why can't one person say I am for it, not because I drink, but because I think the extra revenue could be good for the city?
Why can't one person say I am against it because I do not want to loose my small town feel?
Why can't one person say I am against it because my beliefs would not allow me to vote for more opportunities for alcohol?

And instead of attacking, maybe someone would ask for information supporting their view point. The person may say they do not really have any supporting data or the person may list a host of reasons; either way we thank them for their input and move on.

I desperately would like to see Ruby Tuesday's and O'Charleys locate within our city, they are 2 of my favorite restaurants. I would prefer them to come without the need to serve alcohol; but I recognize that alcohol sales makes 8-12 percent of their profit margin. And when, not if, they come I will support them; whether or not they serve alcohol.

I have many friends who are caught up in things that I do not agree with, but I do not cut them off from being my friend; there may be times I cannot go where they go, but I will do my best to be their friend. The same goes for businesses; I will do my best to help support them.

I can only speak for myself, when I say it is a matter of principle for me to vote no; and if I believe in what I say, then by nature I should do my best to convince others of my position.

Extra revenue is nice to have, but do not be confused; it will go into the general fund. This covers things like police, fire, parks, and city administration. Roads, water, gas, and sewer would not benefit from the tax revenue; they would of course benefit from usage fees. Road funds are calculated based on population.

Most everyone sees LBTD as a no-brainer. The problem is that some say it is a no-brainer that we need it; and others say it is a no-brainer that we don't.

The pressure is great right now to pass LBTD. Whitehouse passed it. Franklin, Gallatin, and Goodlettsville have it, and somehow if Portland does not pass it we will have missed the boat. The problem is whether or not you think it is a good idea to be on the boat; remember, the majority wanted on the Titanic, but they did not want on the Ark.

Maybe we should just get out an vote our conscience, and not be angry if someone disagrees with us.

portland fan - I, as well answered your question in a very nice, calm worded way. I'm sorry you have such a perception of me. Atleast I answered your question unlike you who has totally ignored mine. Have you or do you eat at any of the like establishments I mentioned?

Wow...why so defensive, Judy? I asked you a very nice, calmly worded question that you could have answered simply by saying "there's no specific source".

Look, I know your opinion on LBTD and you know mine. Neither of us will likely change the other. Let's just go about organizing our support for this vote and respect the other's right to an opinion. Deal?

portland fan- there's no specific source, but numerous ones, to name a few, the debate, the papers, the citizens, friends, family aquaintances, letters to the editors, this blog, somewhere out there in our own little world these things were addressed. My point is, we didn't have lbtd for the past 2 years because it failed, but we still have many of the things happening in this town that some fear would happen if it passed. Then there were things that some thought could happen in the city that would replace the revenue or possible businesses that it may of possibly drawn. With it or without it there are just some things every town experiences. Look nobody is ever forced to drink, much like I'm sure many visit some restaurants in this town that currently sell beer (mexican restaurant, Pizza hut, chinese restaurant) or out of town, O'Charley's, Logans, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, who have never ordered an alcoholic beverage but eat their food. Have you ever eaten at any of them?

Yeah this whole topic and the self righteous people who they think that because some words in an old book give them the right to stomp on other people's rights in this country is just one of the reasons I'm moving away. This town as a whole is NOT progressive despite what it's citizens may think. I'm sorry but I've never been happy here and now that I have financial opportunities to move away I'm happy. I will be shocked if LBTD passes here. If it does, it will only be because the "christians" were too busy to vote and it will surely be fought against for years to come.

Judy, what's your specific source for the 7 items you claim the opposition said?

Two years ago the opposition to Liquor By The Drink said

1- There were other ways of gaining revenue for our city without LBTD.
2- Portland’s crime rate would rise if LBTD passed.
3- Portland is not big enough for LBTD yet!!
4- Abuse to Women and Children would rise if LBTD passed.
5- The number of broken families would rise if it passed.
6- Alcohol related traffic incidents would rise.
7- There are other ways to bring in new buildings and features without LBTD or tax increases?
How many of these has happened over the past two years?

1- The City just cut gas rates and permit fees for the city.
2- Just look in the paper
3- I believe whitehouse census showed less population than Portland
4- How many of these have been in the paper over the last 2 years!
5- Anyone you know been divorced or split over the past 2 years, I know a few.
6- Again look in the paper
7- Yes, we've seen 2 plans put on paper, but numerous businesses have
packed up and either moved away or closed their doors.

What has this city gained over the past 2 years?
How much better off are we now than 2 years ago?
Why are so many living off the fear of what could happen!
I guess they never get in their cars and drive on the roads for fear of being DOA in a traffic accident.

I stand behind my statement that without the passing of LBTD, this City doesn't stand the chance to even compete with our neighboring communities. This isn't about morals, or consuming alcohol, it's about having options available inside this city that could help it progress! It's about having the possibility of keeping our money here in our own town providing additional tax revenue to help pave our streets, increase our Public Service Dept, build our own Library, update and better our own parks, provide our city with a better water system, the list goes on and on. Instead we are doing all this NOW for our neighboring cities. Sure you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink! But, the bottom line is, If there's no water in that pond they have to go elsewhere!

well, mike, I'm speachless after that! God sure has given you a gift to minister. None of us will ever be able to defend the moral side to this. For me, it's not about the drinking! It's about the food! I hate that it takes the selling of alcoholic beverages to lure restaurants. And for those who say "they won't come here", well then you have nothing to worry about, because if they don't, then there will be no one selling it anyway! Because they are the only ones who can! There's one sure thing you can bank on, if it doesn't pass, you can guarantee they won't come! But then again, there are no guarantees in all of this. I sure am not out to oust the churches, Thank God we have them! I'm sure not out to oust any individuals, it's just one more thing in a list of tactics we can try to lure businesses. I'm done, I can no longer win this argument.

There were once 7 friends. 6 of which drank, but the other 1 did not. The 6 were always demeaning the 1 that would not; claiming what great things the 1 would experience if the 1 would only drink too.
During there efforts to convince the 1 that 1 should drink too, they started to attack the 1’s church. They claimed 1’s church was no good and that it was keeping 1 from drinking.
Soon the 6 gathered some sleazy numbers and finally forced 1 out, 1’s church out, and finally all the churches and all the numbers that did not want to drink were forced out.
The 6 were now happy that they could drink, as they wanted.
One day 3, 7, 4, and 5 asked 2 and 6 to go riding after a night of drinking. 4 was talking to 5, 7 and 3 had fell a sleep, when suddenly 2 cried out; but it was too late they were in trouble.
All of the kind numbers had left and there was no 1 to help anymore, so 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, turned into the letters DOA.
Sometime latter a 9 came into town and thought to himself “what a great place for a church”
This reminds me of an old time spiritual:
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with God’s church or he will destroy your town da, da, da

I wonder if Sodom and Gomorrah would have been considered global warming?

Wait do you smell that? its brimstone - it, it smells like victory

Y’all know I’m bound to chime in sooner or later. I am so thankful that we live in a country where we can express each other’s position on passionate issues and still be friends. As most of you know, I seem to always be an advocate for the alcohol issues. The funny thing is, I could probably count on both hands the number of times I have drank alcohol. The other thing I’ve noticed is that this seems to become a competition. It is like a candidate running for office, and we’re seeing who will become the “winner”. Folks, we should not look at this issue in this manner. We seem to find ourselves becoming so passionate about the issue, that we let it become personal. We start attacking each other, and we basically just get carried away to the point we allow our comments to get out of hand and away from the actual point! I’ll just admit it, I HATE conflict! One of the things I enjoyed as a policeman, and still love as a councilman, is trying to resolve conflict. I always wanted to believe that I could talk my way out of a paper bag. I really honestly do love the challenge of trying to be a mediator. For that reason, I hate when this alcohol issue becomes so nasty. I love the fact that we all have difference of opinions, and that we are able to debate our differences in an open forum. In defense of the “against” side, let’s all admit, we know that when people abuse alcohol and become intoxicated, it is never a good thing! Without alcohol, there would be no alcohol related accidents! Without alcohol, there would be no alcoholic fathers, husbands, and wives! Without alcohol, there would be no bars, as we know them! But please hear me out! The availability of having a glass of wine with a meal, a margarita with a Mexican dish, a beer with pizza, is NOT what makes an alcoholic the monster they become! It is the ABUSE of alcohol that creates that monster! The point I will NEVER understand is WHY there are those who want to keep LBTD out of this city. What exactly do you think you are accomplishing? Do you really believe that because we don’t have LBTD that there is some invisible shield around this city that keeps out the monsters? I mean seriously think about what you are saying. Would it not make more sense to spend our efforts educating our children about responsibility? I mean even D.A.R.E. stands for Drug ABUSE Resistance Education! How many of us have used pain pills after surgery to bear with the pain of being ripped open and body parts repaired? Then how many have ABUSED the pain pills and took them to “get high”? Narcotics are only legally consumed when a “Licensed” Physician prescribes them, and a “Licensed” Pharmacist dispenses them! Which is EXACTLY what we are trying to accomplish by “passing” LBTD. Tennessee legally allows “licensed” dining establishments with “Licensed” servers to serve alcoholic beverages to responsible, legal, consenting adults! However, as a technical detail, each city has to vote and lift the restriction on its city limits. We’re not asking to legalize something illegal, just to loosen the restrictions here so we might benefit from the revenue generated. And I’d like to add; do you not realize that servers and establishments are accountable for making sure customers are being responsible? I promise you, it’s much more of a controlled environment than someone buying a case of beer at a market and driving around getting drunk! Plus, I have never in 36 years ever gone into a restaurant where alcohol is served and been pressured into buying a mixed drink! So there you have it. There’s my argument and my position. I love all of you bloggers, and love the fact that you stand up for what you believe in. We may not always agree, but let’s please agree to disagree!

I have a question about "churches" --- are there any laws defining what a "church" is...or any laws that regulate them? If I wanted to start my own church and not be subject to taxes, could I do it ? If you don't have to be affiliated with a major denomination or part of their organization...then you are an independent ministry, right ? Who are they accountable to ??
Just their members? A lot of stuff could be bought through the church, for the church, and not pay taxes...is that right ?

If i'm not mistaken Churches don't pay taxes. If the Liquor vote were to fail again then maybe the city could start taxing the churches to increase revenue.

Just an Idea.

portland fan - upset, nah... sorry if that disappoints you. LOL - oh no, now I laughed, slap my hand!

Judy, you seem upset! In fact, your last statement "maybe you should step out of your tunnel vision..." that was directed towards me seems to border on a personal attack. I thought that kind of derogatory statement towards another blogger was discouraged if not prohibited. You may have to censor yourself.

portland fan - Nope didn't overlook it at all, I also read out of the same post.
1-Portland has a great opportunity but early 20th century thinking will not bridge the gap between the city’s ambitions and her reality.
2-Some people are more than happy to see Portland remain small but the need for revenue is not limited to a big city
3-let’s ask the churches that organized against the issue
4-Those opposed to LBTD won the latest battle for Portland because the pro crowd didn’t draw support from the fence riders on the issue.

There are four different scenerios mentioned, however you only see the Churches, why is that? and only one makes reference to why it failed,#4 we (the PRO LBTD crowd) didn't draw support from the fence riders. Maybe you should step out of your tunnel vision and see the whole picture.

I have been researching the LBTD state laws and found that if Portland passes LBTD, then by law, the city has to allow stores to have Sunday beer sales after 12 noon. Once LBTD passes, state laws take over and the city has to adopt them, so the beer board will not have a say on Sunday sales.

Judy - you said:

"I only read the following in my post below
"Those opposed to LBTD won the latest battle for Portland because the pro crowd didn’t draw support from the fence riders on the issue"

If you re-read your post maybe you'll see what I saw, which is:

"We were told that Portland is not big enough for LBTD yet!! so let’s ask the churches that organized against the issue to quit building huge expansions or maybe have a vote to apply taxes to their property and use the same excuse, that Portland just is not big enough to give tax exemption to the biggest buildings in the city."

Did you overlook that reference to churches that I referred to in your post???

BP Customer....I've never even BEEN in the BP station.....you addressed your comments to the wrong person ! You might try reading a little better before you start typing.

topcat - ROFL, your last sentence.... way too funny!!

I believe Thomas Jefferson stated many years ago about the separation between Church and state.

I believe in God, our eternal Savior.

I believe wine is listed many times in the Bible.

You can go across the county line, sample a taste of the wine, you can spend money for the wine, but legally you can't consume the wine on premise. Is something wrong with this picture? You are consuming when doing the sampling.

I did learn something new on the blog today, the hookah is a tobacco pipe. I always thought a hookah was the person who worked the truck stop parking lot.

Do you have any idea what citizens pay for your church? The tax breaks? I love churches, but I'm not sure when it was decided that churches would be the organizers for political topics. I'm not sure there's any example of this in the Bible. I agree, citizens vote. Citizens, mostly organized and identifying themselves by the church they attended, crammed city hall every time liquor by the drink and sunday beer sales were discussed. Where were they when we talked about high crime numbers, sex offenders and other countless issues that are just as moral as this? Oh on those nights, there were plenty of seats left. And your argument about giving money to the homeless and all that jazz doesn't hold much weight either. In Las Vegas, the casinos buy school buses and contribute billions to charity.
Look, we can beat around the bush all day but we know what this comes down to. The crowd against LBTD, mainly consisting of moral objectors, will sound loud claims of the horrible impacts LBTD will have. But those same people will not show up to speak in front of the council for a tax increase to hire more police officers. They don't spend as much time crafting letters to the editor about how Portland can get more revenue as they do talking about potential harms. But as much time as they spend talking about what could happen, it's almost as if they're ignoring what is happening. The pile of unsolved cases lying on your detective's desk because he has no backup, the lack of homeless shelters cause there's no funding. The list goes on.
I might not agree with your moral decision to do something, but I believe, and to the death, that you should have the right to do it if it's deemed legal. But I still haven't heard an answer as why it's bad for Portland to have LBTD but it's OK for Gallatin. Because when you eat at a place that serves LBTD, you're supporting it, even if it's indirectly.

BP, that was me that made the observation at the gas station. My point was that this kind of stuff can be sold and not questioned as a moral issue, but LBTD is questioned. Besides, Im not sure why anyone would want to smoke *tobacco* out of something that "looks" like a cigarette, why not just buy the smokes :) Just my opinion *S*

BP Customer - Taken from Wickapedia - A hookah operates by water filtration and indirect heat. It can be used for smoking herbal fruits, tobacco, or cannabis.

I'm getting quite an education here!! lol

Portland Fan, Thanks for saying what so many of us are thinking. I wondered how long it would take before he stuck his nose in when I saw the LBTD post. Isn't it time for Daniel Suddarth to move on and stop trying to run things here in Portland. It seems he and a few of his followers take every opportunity to bash churchs for any thing that happens here. Before blaming the churches for everything that doesn't go your way, why not do the indept research you seem to always have available for the pros of LBTD. Do you have any idea what the churches in this community do for the citiizens? Rents are paid, electric and water bills are paid, food and clothing are provided, school supplies are made available, housing is found. At any charity event held, you'll find the churches there doing their part and more. Visit the funeral homes sometimes and notice the church people that are there to offer comfort to people who are grieving. The ones who need help most are the people supported by the churches. Unlike Daniel Suddarth who sits hundreds of miles away and beats his chest proclaiming I have the answer, the Churches are quietly going about the business of taking care of Portland's people. Don't talk to me about morals when you have none.

portland fan - You said
"Well, there it is again! I get so tired of people blaming the multiple failures of LBTD in Portland on churches".

I only read the following in my post below
"Those opposed to LBTD won the latest battle for Portland because the pro crowd didn’t draw support from the fence riders on the issue"

Yes we all have one vote, I will vote with a clear conscience, thank you for your encouragement, that vote is YES!

Beth - You been shakin your head quite a bit lately.

PortlandWatcher I don't think those were bongs you saw at that gas station. At least when I was there they looked liked Hookah's to me. Now I could be mistaken but a Hookah is honestly used for smoking of tobacco. Now if you wanna get upset at that maybe we should ban soda as well because people make bongs out of cans and anything else they can get their hands on. From what I saw they were honestly selling a device that is fully intended to smoke tobacco out of, but what you do in your own home with it isn't any of my business.

Portland Fan, again if you read my post from below, why is LBTD a moral issue and not the BP station on the corner of 52 and 31 selling drug paraphenalia?

It amazes me that this town will rent out adult videos and sell bongs and pinch hitters, but to sell LBTD???? We cant have that, its not moral. *Shakes head*. I just dont get it sometimes.....

Well, there it is again! I get so tired of people blaming the multiple failures of LBTD in Portland on churches. That's no more valid than it was when Daniel printed it in his article or said it in numerous posts on this blog. Churches don't vote. Citizens vote. They form their opinions on some things based on their morals and ethics. Is religion a part of those morals and ethics? I hope so. Are we church members ashamed of that? Most certainly not. The bottom line is that we all have one vote whether we are church members or not. I vote my conscience and I encourage you to do the same.

If there ever was a post I really wanted to go back to at a later date to revisit this was the one.
It's a bit lengthy, but remember "this was from July 13, 2007
What are the Answers, two months after the last election".
=========================================================

What are the Answers
I’m going to work off an article that I read in July 4th's edition of the Portland Progressive written by Daniel Suddeath titled "We need answers not ideology" I found this article quite interesting and asked his permission to bring this up on the Blog, of which he approved.

Daniel noted “Portland has a great opportunity but early 20th century thinking will not bridge the gap between the city’s ambitions and her reality. Some people are more than happy to see Portland remain small but the need for revenue is not limited to a big city. Paving projects, sewer rehab and utility work cannot be accomplished without ample funding regardless of whether a city has a population of 30,000 or 13,000.”

Those opposed to LBTD won the latest battle for Portland because the pro crowd didn’t draw support from the fence riders on the issue.

Further Quotes:
So let’s put LBTD past us for a moment and concentrate on keeping the winning side to their word.
They said there were other ways of gaining revenue – so we want to see it.
They said Portland’s crime rate would rise if LBTD passed – so let’s see it drop now that it failed.

We were told that Portland is not big enough for LBTD yet!! so let’s ask the churches that organized against the issue to quit building huge expansions or maybe have a vote to apply taxes to their property and use the same excuse, that Portland just is not big enough to give tax exemption to the biggest buildings in the city.

Where are the other forms of revenue and the alternative methods to expansion politicians and leaders talked about when they were shaking their Bibles in opposition to LBTD and Sunday beer sales?

Where are the plans to bring in new buildings and features that we were told could happen without a tax increase? The latest budget features a dip into the rainy day funds, could this be a sign that the council is up against a no-win situation? Now that the smoke has cleared from last May's election the people of Portland have the right to kow what direction our city is headed towards. (End of Quotes)

I am asking you……..
What do you think?
Where do you see Portland in 2009 at the next election?
Will there be new revenue? if so, where will it come from?
=====================================================
You can view the entire post with comments made at
http://www.portlandtn.net/2007/07/what_are_the_an_1.html#comments
So now that it's 2009 and we're coming up on another election, what are the answers?

This is such a fun debate and one I miss covering. My friend Mr. Coker alleges that even if LBTD is passed, the major chains probably won't come to Portland. I agree, but one thing that cannot be debated is that if LBTD doesn't pass, those chains will never come. Portland has an identity crisis. Many want it to stay the same, rural town it has always been. Nothing wrong with that at all. Others see the traffic flowing down the streets and see a chance to capitalize. Nothing wrong with that. The problem I have with using religion as the end all to this argument has been well documented. The same people who say they don't want liquor-serving establishments in their town drive down to Gallatin and Nashville on Sunday to eat at the same places. True, they don't buy liquor, but their patronage of these places still feeds the owners' pocket, allowing them to serve alcohol.
Portland needs something if they want to progress. If it doesn't, that's fine. But you can't have less tools than White House and Franklin and expect to be competitive.

"...not too much else has changed other than the amount of little churches have grown by leaps & bounds, and the other churches have expanded greatly in physical size..."

Wow - what a tremendous compliment for the city of Portland! I'm a proud member of one of those growing churches and I thank you for publicizing this fact.

Portlandwatcher - I agree with you that you don't have to drive far to get a nice meal or purchases at a lower tax rate. But..... What would all that tax revenue do for Portland if we could keep a majority of those dollars here in town. I am one that will do the majority of my shopping and dining in KY, why? Availability, we just don't have much of anything to choose from. I used to drive to KY just to get my gas, but now that Portland is and has been right in line with KY stations on price Portland gets my gas money. If Portland had options I wouldn't make the trip out of town regardless of the lower tax rate in KY. Except maybe on large purchases. Portland has grown in size/population since we moved here 13 years ago, but not too much else has changed other than the amount of little churches have grown by leaps & bounds, and the other churches have expanded greatly in physical size, and the amount of factories has increased greatly.

Charlie - I'm glad you posted those stats on Liquor, I came across that on the web and couldn't believe it. And yes, I agree the drinking and driving is all over Portland and my yard proves it!! Good thing I recycle.

Beth....all I can say is that Portland is the goofiest backward thinking place I've ever lived.
There are a lot of good things here, of course, but it's going to be a lot of years before it gets out of the backwardness and small mindedness that is so "Portland". It's one of the most hypocritical little towns I've ever seen. They would love to keep it the way it was decades ago and that just defies logic....LOL

Portland is just also disadvantaged by it's location, I think, too. We are just sorta in limbo as far as the interstate goes. Everything will go out by the interstate. Downtown Portland will look the way it does a hundred years from now.

I was talking about LBTD, the other day with someone, and they told me that another group of people who fight LBTD are the bootleggers. You reckon there's any of those around these parts ?? LOL

The best thing, economically, about Portland, is that we are so close to the state line, that we can buy all our food with no sales tax in KY, and a lower sales tax rate on everything else, and don't have to drive too far to have a nice evening meal out in a nice restaurant. Love the Brickyard in Franklin ! :)

The Portland City Limit sign is past the BP station on the corner of 31 heading towards Portland on 52 about a couple hundred yards. We were actually in that BP station recently and I was shocked to see drug paraphenalia being sold at this station. Of course its in a class case labled *for tobacco use only*, but get serious! How many folks do you know that use that stuff for tobacco? Rolling papers maybe, but a bong with dragons and skulls all over it?? So whats the message here? If you want to go somewhere and have LBTD, you need to leave Portland, but for your local bong shop, go to the BP station?? If its true that Orlinda runs this part of the interstate, then I guess Portland can just look the other way....until one of their own kids get caught with it I suppose.

Here are a few facts:

Fact 1: Each of these drinks has about the same amount of alcohol: a 12-ounce can of beer, a 5-ounce glass of wine, one-ounce of 100 proof liquor.

Fact 2: There are lots of stores [e.g., Mapco, Food Lion, etc.] that sell beer in Portland.

Fact 3: There are at least two restaurants in Portland that sell beer with meals.

Fact 4: Drive down just about any road in Portland and take a look at all the aluminum cans people have tossed out of their cars. You know what? The vast majority of those cans are beer cans.

It seems to me, a lot of people are stopping at the convenience store, getting a can of beer and drinking it before they get home. Note too that a lot of the beer cans you see on the roads are much bigger than 12 ounces. I've seen 24 ounce and 48 ounce. If you look closely, you'll also see "clusters" of beer cans (same brand and size) which may indicate the same person had several beers and tossed them out at the same time.

Is what we have now, with beer, any worse than what we'd have if restaurants in Portland could serve wine and mixed drinks?

Servers in restaurants that sell beer and wine are required to have training on such subjects as how to spot intoxicated people, how to slow down alcohol consumption, how to discourage people from driving drunk, etc. Would that not be better than someone's buying a six-pack of beer at Mapco, and drinking it before they reached home, five miles away?

For all intents and purposes, we already have the problems of LBTD in Portland. We've just chosen to send the revenue to Gallatin and Franklin.

They cut gas rates but my water bill said that sewer rates went up by 5%.

I read in the Progressive about the aldermen cutting the gas rates...

Way to go guys (and alderwoman Mclerran). You did something that will affect a lot of people.

Here we go again. I will vote for it, however if it fails, I will always be able to go to Gallatin, White House and Franklin to eat. Like what someone else said, with our factories in the toilet as far as business, maybe this will be a way of providing jobs. Who knows? Once again, I guess I can assume that the anti- liquor by the drink folks NEVER go to liquor by the drink establishments outside of our town, right? People who are APPALLED at the fact that a restaraunt sells a mixed drink never visit a Chili's or an O'Charley's right?

Hypocrites are everywhere here....and they keep this town from growing, while they fill the tax buckets of our neighbors by visiting the very same types of businesses they rally to keep away from Portland.

With the new comfort Suite's coming to the interstate there will be more interest in that part of town now for business such as more hotels and places for the guest to eat. Portland city limits start's at 31w and I would drive out there to eat at a nice restaurant which is close to the Interstate just like White house and Franklin.

I also disagree with the statement about resturant's wanting to build in this economy. I'm on the road here in the Northern Middle Tennessee area everyday due to my job. I haven't seen a drop in resturant's being built. They seem to be popping up everywhere which has suprised me.

Who ever said that only good restaurants are chain restaurants. My family has eaten at many non chain restaurants that serve liquor by the drink and are excellent establishments. Many are nice Italian, or steak house restaurants that are one of a kind not a chain. All the talk about chain restaurants and they won't come here is just another smoke screen.
Any new business is tax revenue for the City no matter how you look at it even if it's only one or two within the next couple years, that's one or two we didn't have.

Why was taxpayer dollars spent on the corridor study on hwy52 was it not so Portland could expand out closer to the interstate, so if all that land is not in the city limits why was the study done? These City Limits are spread out all over ten buck two with no conformity, It's a wonder people don't know what is and what isn't inside city limits.

My family and I ate at American Bistro in the old Shoney's in Franklin tonight. They sell liquor and I did not feel forced to have to have a drink. In fact, the time we were there, I saw only 2 drinks came out of the bar(we were sitting close to the bar area). They have very good food and large portions. American Bistro is nonsmoking and has a wonderful atmosphere. Patients can bring good eateries.

BTW, I do not think any of the land on 52 has been properly zoned for development. The city is using the input from citizens they met with last year and the consulting company to decide how zoning should be done.

How many FOR SALE signs does anyone see on Hwy 52, AKA "The Corridor"?

How many thousand $$$$$$$$$$$ were spent for a corridor study by the city?

With the recession going on now, I believe Portland passing LBTD would be a good chance for anyone to take a chance and open a new resturant that would offer liquor and create new jobs. Passing LBTD will not bring the big chain resturants but will open the door to new chances for people. They city has been working on the 52 corridor from I-65 and all that empty land is screaming to be developed and I would rather see new places to eat and shop other than old run down buildings that owners dont care for and somehow get away not having to pave their parking areas or maintain clean properties. Just because LBTD passes, it doesnt mean that anyone will be serving liquor the next week. The city council will still need to establish regulations similar to those able to sell beer. If things go they way they have in the past, I forsee problem with trying to sell liquor because anyone can open a "church" anywhere they feel and have done so in the past limiting the what few places we have to eat ate at abilities to sell beer. It seems that there is a church on every street in town, so unless someone goes toward the stateline or out 52 they will not have a chance in town. Nothing against religion, but come on, how many places of worship can this town have. Portland is not collecting a single dollar from any of these places. Look within a 2 mile radius of city hall and count all the churches.

I for one will be voting for LBTD, I dont drink, I believe in God, but it opens the door for more jobs and oppurtunites this town despartely needs.

PS--- Can we get rid of that stupid law about not selling beer on Sunday. Allow beer sales after 12 noon. Lots of money is being lost to Orlinda/Robertson County. Portland is great about regressing not progressing

Every year this comes up, I spend a lot of time doing research to see if there are any commonalities in the cities that have the big restaurants like O'Charley's, Logan's etc, and this is what I have found.

All of these places have at least one of the following things in common:
1.) They are the county seat.
2.) They are the biggest city (population wise) in their county. (This is what most had in common)
3.) They have a population of at least 15,000 (I'd have to go back and make sure that number is right it might have been even higher) using the latest census estimates.

The only exception to this pattern was Gatlinburg, and with the citizen population of Gatlinburg actually being low, count the tourists and the population is huge.

As you can see, Portland does not fit any of these criteria. Now I'll be completely honest, I am against LBTD for moral reasons as well, but I also don't see that it is going to get a lot of the people that are for LBTD what they are supporting it for... being the nice big restaurant chains.

How long has Franklin had it now? I don't see any of them locating there. (Oh, even though Franklin is a county seat, I only looked at TN cities so I don't know if the same pattern follows in KY). If Portland passes LBTD now all you will get is the same kind of restaurants we have now, only they'll serve liquor.

Now if you want to vote for LBTD so that you can have wine or whatever with your meal, fine. Voting for it will accomplish that. I just don't want anyone to be fooled into thinking voting for LBTD will bring all the nice restaurant chains knocking on the door. I, and many other alderman, have talked to these guys and they don't even look to see if the city allows LBTD unless they have the market size they are looking for FIRST.

In case you want to do your own research, the chains I looked at were O'Charley's, Logans, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Ruby Tuesdays, Chili's, and Longhorns. These seemed to be the most prevalent chains in TN.

I can understand why one would think the city limits goes to the interstate, some of the city limits is off the 52 and 31w intersection. Diane is right Orlinda controlls at the interstate, and they get the revenue from the new hotel and anything else that builds right there, I think we just ran the lines and provide water for them. Can't quite remember what the deal was so don't quote me on it.

This is a few of what the Portland City website quotes as reasons businesses would want to locate here.

2. Location - Portland is strategically located along the I-65 corridor, SR 52 and US Highway 31W. This cental location provides access to 50 percent of the USA population.

4. Cost Of Doing Business - With no state sales tax and with business friendly local, county, and state governments; Portland is a clear choice for investment.

9. Population - The demographics for our area attest we are a community of families with good job skills, good household incomes,and we're prepared to support local business.

10. Commitment - Local elected officials are committed to maintaining our "Business Friendly" status by ensuring area infrastructure keeps up with demand.

Note: #4
I didn't know we have no STATE SALES Tax, think that's a booboo, perhaps they meant State Income Tax.

To read all 10
http://www.cityofportlandtn.gov/ContentPage.aspx?WebPageId=17282&GroupId=4055

Yes with the economy as it is today will be a hard sell to get anything here right now, however it's gotta get better some day... soon I hope! Better to be prepared for tomorrow than to do nothing at all.

city limits does not go to the interstate. orlinda controls that, not portland.

SamS...My point is that White House and Franklin are right on the interstate exit as where Portland is not. Right now all Portland has is downtown and I don't see that changing anytime soon even with LBTD.
With the economy the way it is right now, I don't see any restaurants or fast food places wanting to build in a small town. Too many places going belly-up right now.
I will vote for LBTD if it's placed on the ballot but I will not sign the petition. I could care less one way or another.

Curmudgeon
Ponderosa didn't survive because their food STUNK, when they first opened they were good, 4 months later I wouldn't feed it to my dogs! Further more, Shoney's couldn't make it in Franklin, did that stop someone from re-opening a restaurant there and others! MoMo's didn't make it in Whitehouse either and they sold beer, it's had several other restaurants go in there after them and more new ones are in the works. Both of those towns now have LBTD. Without the opportunity Portland will never know, that's how I look at it. I guess it's ok to put a new tax up for vote or a civic center like they did last time, that's not a waste of money but a LBTD referendum is. Beats me how this town gets anything accomplished.

Debra
What does Franklin and Whitehouse have in attractions that bring in visitors from out of the area, I'de like to know so I can go see it, we're always looking for something close by to do! Good grief the Bluegrass music hall in Franklin went belly up in less than a year, and the horse track only holds 2 or 3 race weeks a year there. Portland has an interstate exit too, and the City Limit goes all the way out there, people keep thinking down town is all there is to the City of Portland.

I have a wonderful idea!!! Since folks argue the fact that having LBTD is an economical issue and the tax revenue would help this town vs a moral issue, how about we tax something EVERYONE uses...say...oh I dont know....toilet paper maybe? That way, we get the tax revenue and we arent judging each other because everyone (I hope)uses toilet paper. Problem solved!

I couldnt resist......*lol*

I could be wrong but I think Portland has missed the boat when it comes to LBTD. If it had passed the first time it was on the ballot we MIGHT have seen some good from it but not now. With Franklin and White House having LBTD that is where the good restaurants are going to locate. Really we are out in the middle of nowhere, as where Franklin and White House have the interstate to pull in traffic. If you really think about it what does Portland have that would pull traffic here? Nothing for sightseeing, no museums, nothing that people want to see other than the Strawberry Festival once a year and that is mostly because of Ronnie McDowell. If we had LBTD and a good restaurant why would people drive here to eat when they could get the same thing elsewhere? I just don't see it happening.

Please, can we give this a rest? This town couldn't even hang on to a Ponderosa and Liquor-By-The-Drink (LBTD) was not an issue at all in that case. In the current economic situation, we can ill afford to waste money putting referendums on the ballot that will ultimately make no difference whether they pass or fail. What's a restaurant chain (or other business, for that matter) going to think when they find out that Ponderosa came here and built a shiny new restaurant only to have to tear it down and haul it off to the dump a short time later?

Let's put our efforts into something that will make a difference for Portland. LBTD isn't it! Put the same effort into the Portland Library and make a real difference. Then, if Portland grows, in both size and level-headedness, re-visit LBTD when it makes sense to do so.

Very well put Judy,

I will support this issue, I have seen how it can grow a community.

I will give fair warning, we are going to hear from the other side and how its a huge sin and how it is unholy. I even had someone say to me past time around that if we voted in LBTD, the next thing we knew we would have people running naked in the streets and would have strip clubs all over town.

Typical religious nuts, preaching their message of fear and using their scare tactics.

Then you will hear how it will increase drunk driving, as though this is not happening now. Have you ever sat outside of MAPCO and watched people walk out of there with beer by the case which they are taking to their...yes...car! and driving with already in the car. Somehow, this is fine, but LBTD isn't. As my daughter would say...der dad!

White house has already passed it, last time I drove through there, it was still there, I did not witness any nudity in the streets and the town appeared intact to me.

Lets get this passed and start moving forward.

This is good news !

Great post, Judy.....thank you ... very well said.

I will sign the petititon and I will vote, for sure like I did the last time. I hope it will pass this time. Portland desperately needs the revenue it will generate.

In the meantime, there is another nice place to eat on the KY border...I ate there today. It's the American Bistro. Very nice selections on the menu and reasonably priced. I wish it were in Portland.
Maybe this time next year, we will be able to say a restaurant like this one, will be. It's open till 11 pm...and that is so nice !