Portland, Tennessee Blog

Thought it was interesting to see how the current Poll on the City site was doing. I believe it has now been up longer than the Tornado Siren poll was. Note: With the new poll you can only vote ONE time!!! The results are below!

Need More Space
Should the City provide adequate civic meeting places and Library space?

Yes. Increase property tax to fund it. 33% 9

Yes. If other services could be cut to fund it. 33% 9

No. No matter what. 19% 5

Need more information. 15% 4

total votes: 27

Councilman Callis was correct in noting the prior poll was manipulated by individuals voting over and over again, and these results gives a little validation to my earlier post. "It's not likely the poll got 400 votes without some voting over, and over, and over again. Portland is just not that much in touch with the internet, the city site, the community site, or the blog for that matter."

I would of loved to of seen better numbers but it just isn't there, more than likely half or better of those votes came as a result of the blog. Oh Well.... until there is more public exposure to the city site and the blog, interest will grow at a snails pace.

My point is that it is a very expensive and many times ineffective "level of protection". Ever wonder why there is only one county system and no city systems like it in the general area? It's because (1) they are comparatively very expensive, and (2) they are not very effective in rural areas where population is relatively sparse. How about just encouraging and providing a means to easily get a NOAA weather radio for each household? You might even get a local store to be a partner in something like that. What good PR that would be for them!

Remember that the debate to have a siren is not that it be the only way to warn citizens, but another level of protection.
The thought was, that if some rough storms came through and took out power (no more radio, tv, internet - unless some folks already had proper batteries) or people were not aware of present weather conditions, then the battery back up sirens would still sound if an approaching tornado was in the area.
All of this is still being debated.
Hopefully it would be an item that never gets used.

I agree with "portland fan". I would feel much safer with a NOAA radio, which can blare in my ear if I'm asleep, than a siren system that I may or may not hear. There are too many variables, including my tax dollars, to rely on a siren for protection. A siren that I can hear from two miles on one day, may be completely worthless from a half mile on the next.

If they decide to go ahead with this, I sure hope they make the "research" public. I want to know with absolute certainty that my contribution to public safety will truly enhance that safety and not provide a false sense of security for our citizens.

CD You're right, not everyone gets a city water bill, maybe CEMC would collect them for the city in the electric payments, oh well....just a thought that popped into my head. So you are one of the Lucky ones ;) I hate the taste of Portland City water, no offense to the City, I just can't drink it, my sister-in-law gets WH water and there is a big difference in taste.

Judy your water bill poll idea would not work. Not everyone in portland get's their water from Portland Utility's. I know the area I live in does not have Portland water. It was a good Idea though.

Fan - No harm no foul, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I stated mine and you stated yours if we all thought alike things would be a tad boring here. If you want a fairly true poll, send out one with the water bill, let each household complete and send back with their payment, then you might get a fairly accurate census of community support or lack there of, anything else is too open for manipulation.

As for the caps, I do use them where I feel the need for emphasis, not like I am typing complete sentences, sorry if you find that annoying. If you will re-read many of your posts below, you as well use CAPS to emphasis with, not to mention the "-". oh well... to each is own. Happy Posting!!

Judy, thanks for your opinion. Mine is different. Unlike you and Mr. Callis, I certainly believe 400 Portland citizens (only 3.6% of the population) are computer literate and interested enough to get online and vote. As Tim said, if polls are so invalid, why do we see them on the site at all? Sounds like they are a waste of everyone’s time. And whatever the reason, you must admit the poll in question disappeared and reappeared under rather mysterious circumstances. And trust me…it was gone! As I said before, I think they generally reflect public opinion and that opinion currently is that the majority don’t think sirens are right at this time. The idea of having NOAA weather radios in every household is a pretty good one, though. For the record, you may have been 100% in the dark as you said, but I certainly don’t think I have been.

I really don’t mean this to be critical or to make you mad so please don’t take it that way…it’s just a pet peeve I guess. Please go easy on the caps – many of us see that as shouting and it just isn’t necessary.

Mike, you misinterpreted the meaning of my post. I was asking that if the polls are so easily manipulated that the Council and Mayor don't even listen to them, then why should they even be on there in the first place? If the polls do not acheive the desired result, then why waste the time putting it on there is more of what I was driving at.

As you said, you have better things to be doing.

It's not likely the poll got 400 votes without some voting over, and over, and over again. Portland is just not that much in touch with the internet, the city site, the community site, or the blog for that matter. Polls are nothing more than an avenue for expression, and one that really doesn't hold much weight. I contacted the Mayor via email with my opinion, and YES I got a reply!! I also contacted 2 of our councilmen with a suggestion regarding Tornado Alerts and BOTH replied back, PLUS it was brought up and mentioned at the council meeting Monday, so YES...... They DO listen!

The fact that the poll was gone is not of great concern, this could of been a result of many different factors most likely the site who's server it was on either, was down, was over loaded, was being updated, or just a fluke in the system. It doesn't matter, IF you want your voice to be heard e-mail, or snail mail, the Mayor.

We so often bite the hand that feeds us, I for one am thankful for any council person that takes the time to come to the blog and provide information. Do I always agree with their thoughts, NO, but they take the time and I hate to see that end and we go back to being 100% in the dark.

Suspicions and conspiracy theories surrounding a poll are a little too far vetched.

The fact is no one removed the poll. The company that controls the server may have been down when you looked, but it was not removed. I am on the site more than anyone else at many different times and it has been up.
The results are posted.
The city site goes down from time to time due to problems; not because information is being suppressed.

This month’s poll question is up and a different poll supplier is being used with a more secure system of voting.

If I wasn’t concerned with your thoughts I would not be on here nor would I take the time to put this info out there.
If I did not want you (the public) to be more informed, I would not waste my time with these things; but I do try to bring you some info, whether it is pleasant or not.
At least you are asked and you have an opportunity to respond.

Hopefully this next poll will be a better guage of participation; the last one WAS manipulated by a couple of individuals.
What makes emails, letters, and phone calls more accurate is the fact that the same person will probably not call you 25 times in a row, but they would click a poll question button 25 times in a row.
It is about how many different individuals not how many total hits.

I thought if anyone realized that, it would be this group on this blog; not too much slides by this group.

So, Lets try again; but only vote once...;)

You’re right, CD. And I’m seeing things I’m disappointed in. Those of us who looked (I’m not the only one…on more than one day and at more than one time) know the poll WAS gone (just after Councilman Callis commented that it wasn’t valid) and mysteriously reappeared after someone asked why!

But the thing that I think bothers me most is all the previous and current statements by Councilman Callis that imply, if not outright state, that he only listens to those who call, email, write letters or come to meetings. He said “As stated, the real measure of support or lack of it, are the calls, emails, and presence at meetings. Period.” I don’t have the time or the desire to do a lot of those things. But I will occasionally express my opinion anonymously on this blog. His statement tells me he has little use for what he reads on the blog. No, I’m not one of the four citizens who regularly attend meetings, but I believe on election day my vote counts the same as theirs. He’d be smart to listen to all of us rather than berate us for asking a question or expressing an opinion here, whether anonymous or not. And I am a...

portland fan

I like it when some people stir thing's up on here. It brings out thing's and opinion's in people that we might not normally see. I never believe poll's anyway.

My vote is no.

The poll has not been removed.
I do not know who starts these things.
Maybe you logged on and the poll site was down, I do not know; but I just checked after reading this post and it is up!

Also, no one said they were not listening to the polls; BUT, the fact is there are a couple of IP's that are just hitting the "no" over and over.
I do not know who they are that is doing this, but they are trying to skew the results.
(look at the election poll thread, how many have hit that button over and over)

Nothing had to be put up on the web. It was put there for your information.

I decided to keep the web page current and fresh. I do so on my own time as a way to bring you more info.
We want a site that is current, but it requires alot of time to do so. We can go back to a static page, I have plenty I could be doing!
I thought hey, put a little poll up to have some fun input; thinking most on here were savy enough to know that you can click over and over and over.
I mean, you can surf anonymously, you can clear the cookies, etc.. and always find a way around these things (kinda like making multiple post under different names)

As stated, the real measure of support or lack of it, are the calls, emails, and presence at meetings. Period.

Do you honestly believe 400 "different" people have participated in the poll?

Oh well...

I am confused.... If the polls are so easily manipulated and inaccurate to the point that the Mayor and Council don't pay attention to them, why are they there? If you are not going to listen to them, then why have them?

Dc, I agree with you. I think that's exactly why the poll disappeared. I'm kind of let down by Mr. Callis for doing this. I'm sure he will post and say it was innocent and he did nothing wrong. May be true, but the "appearance" is that he removed it when it took a negative turn. Sort of confirms the notion that it was put there first without any cost figures until we called his hand on that. We all know online posts can be manipulated but they generally reflect opinion. Not too many people have time to get on and vote multiple times. Anyway, how does he know the "yes" voters didn't do that more than "no" voters? I'm not so sure the poll results tell him who is voting and how many times. I think he is assuming alot. Bottom line - he just didn't like the results.

As for sirens, they aren't a bad thing for densely populated areas or cities with lots of buildings where people may miss a warning. But they're not so much for rural communities like Portland with 12 miles of coverage. The answer is something he mentioned last night in Council mtg, and that is NOAA weather radios. They aren't expensive...and they work!

Well, I will admit I voted "no" to the sirens on the poll. After putting gas in my car and paying my gas and electric bill.....I'm not anxious for one more hike in anything !!!

It would be a great thing to have....but there's only so much people can pay for these days !

I think the poll was removed because it wasn't going the way they wanted it to. I looked at it a few times and both yes and no were equal. They thought that everyone would just say yes but alot were saying no and they didn't want anyone to see that.

It will be nice for the city to slap the people in his town with a 40 or 50 dollar additional tax. Most people are trying to figure out how keep food on the table these days with the price of gas rising. When you don't have much money every cent counts.

So where did the poll go?

We want a system that would cover the little over 12 square miles of our city.

OH, ok......one more question....will the sirens cover the whole area that is within the "city limits" ???

As stated the council has asked for more info; cost, how it would be funded, etc...
The numbers listed are just for examples; the debate is ongoing.

On the poll....
A couple of individuals have just been hitting the no button over and over and over again.
That is why the statement was placed there.
These polls can be manipulated and the real measure is seen in the contacts the Mayor and Council recieve.

So far most have been in favor of the sirens, based on those who have called and emailed.

I just went to the poll on the city site to see the poll on the siren issue. Have they told us how the payment would be made for these? Will it be a one time charge in the amount of 41.75 or about, or would they just tack a charge on to our water/sewer bill or what ?? And...would it ever be taken off once the sirens are paid for or would it stay on forever for the reason of maintaining the system......it'd be nice to know how they will do that part of it.

Did anyone else notice how, when the information was added to the poll site about the cost of the project, the vote swung from approx. 65 - 35% for the sirens to about 65 - 35% against the sirens. It looks like the significant cost does make a difference, huh?

Ooops! I just went back and noticed the explanation of cost on the page that contains a link to the poll. I stand corrected.

I appreciate Mr. Callis' response and I truly believe there was no intent to sway the poll. But I think he assumes those who look at cityofportlandtn.gov also come to this blog and read it and that isn't necessarily the case. They may not all know about the cost - they just see the question posed as:

Would you like a warning siren in town?
Yes
No
Unsure

By the way, I just copied this text from the poll itself. I don't see any reference to cost here. It should be a part of the poll question, don't you think?

Nothing sneaky and no conspiracy with the poll. I just assumed everyone would realize there is a cost (I mentioned such a thing here on the blog); the city works off of the tax payers.

The page has been changed to reflect that a cost is associated with the project.
Sorry for any confusion.

We are waiting for more info to see if any other funds are available and what a final cost would be and how best to pay for it.

Judy is right. Without considering costs, one would be foolish to answer "no" to the question as presented in the poll. Maybe being able to say everyone wants the warning sirens was the intent of asking that way. :>)

Go to the City web site and contact the mayor with your concerns or questions on this issue.
There is an email link there for this purpose.

www.cityofportlandtn.gov

The poll is great, however, presenting it as "Would you be willing to pay xx to get warning sirens for the city" would of been more accurate. I think most everyone would want them, however, when asked to pay for them may present a different outcome. Just my opinion. Kudo's for keeping that site updated!! :)

Go to the city's web site and vote in the on-line poll of whether or not to have a warning siren.

www.cityofportlandtn.gov

Whoops! Sorry, thanks DebraP for the email address and thanks Judy for the info!

Judy...Thanks!

You can contact Charlie at

cfmyers@mindspring.com

Just tell him you want to become a Blog Author

Thanks Judy...I would like Charlie to contact me about becoming a "blog author." I seem to be spending more and more time here, so I'd like to be able to post new subjects occasionally.

I found this article on the internet that is quite interesting from the Jackson sun out of Jackson TN, take a few minutes to read it, who better to take advise from than an area who has been thru it several times.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080210/NEWS01/802100311/1002/RSS

gw- you can post a request for a new topic at any time, if you would rather give your request privately to one of the blog authors you can either contact Charlie Myers or ask that one of the blog authors contact you directly, we have access to email addresses given by posters (providing it is a valid email addy) we can contact you via email. Maybe you might want to contact Charlie about being a blog author yourself, it's always good to have a variety to hear from. :) Either way if I can help any further just let me know.

BTW -- would someone let me know how to go about starting a new subject or requesting one be started??? thx

CD -- I have no doubt, whatsoever, that many of the tax $ I pay cover a number of things that I do not benefit from, i.e. soccer fields, ball parks, etc. However, that does not relieve me of my responsibility to pay taxes. If some of my tax $ goes to something that will improve the safety of this community, then I really have no problem with a small, temporary increase. We all pay taxes and must be vigilent about how our investment in the community is spent. It doesn't mean we get to pick and choose things that will benefit only ourselves. Afterall, we are a "community" with varied needs and desires. I would like to see the sirens installed, just make sure they are loud enough to be heard over my fans that I have going all night! lol

CD, Guess what, non-proprty owners don't pay the taxes "directly", but they are paying RENT, and too much for what they get in many cases. It's not a "free ride". Taxes just like everything else is passed along to the renter with yearly rent increases.

*clap,clap,clap* For Jody!!! I understand, somewhat both sides. The side I understand the most...The side that knows "if" Lafayette would have had Weather Sirens in place....maybe, just maybe...The death Toll would be one less. Where we are from in New York...each City, Village & Town has a Weather Siren System. The sirens were installed after a Semi,hauling Gasoline, over turned..spilling all of the Liquid Gas down into the streets. The gas went down manholes also. When this occurred their was no warning system in place. How did the town know to evacuate...Half of the Police Force rode up and down the streets using their P.A. System allowing the residents & Businesses to know the danger...and evacuate. These warning sirens are used for other reasons too. At Noon...everyday...There are 3 Long Whistles to let you know it's noon (why they village does this..I have NO idea.) *lol* When there is a fire requiring more than the normal staff..there is a siren. In the late 80's when a Semi hauling Banana's flipped, the sirens were used. I have no idea of the system Portland is considering...and at this early stage the Council probably hasn't thought that far ahead either. I was just making the point that I think we do need sometype of WARNING SYSTEM...as the weather changes throughtout the US every year..shifts hotter in regions that have never been hot normally in March...We should upgrade and stay with a system thats is feesable to our Area. We reside just out of Portland City Limits, however my husband does work nights on Kirby Road. I would hope that our local Businesses would pay a resonable portion knowing that the end results is a benefit to not only the business itself but to their employees and families as well.

If some people want them then they should pay for them. Don't ask everyone to waste their money on something not everyone wants.

I use to live near siren's and never heard them at night when they went off.

Like always ask the property owners to pay for it. If you don't own property then i guess you get another free ride. Seems like the property owner's always end up paying.

The warning system was discussed tonight at city hall.
It was agreed tonight that if the system was implemented, that all maintenance would be figured in the budget; and maintainance would be minimum.
We asked for more information and better cost numbers.
Initially, it looks like a system could be put in for a one time payment of about $40 per property parcel.
We will learn more next month.

After paying to get siren's installed you have to keep paying the maintence on them year after year. Who do you think is going to pay for that. Everytime lighting strikes one and burns it out it has to be fixed or replaced. The city will keep asking for your money.
If they aren't used for a few years thats when the city decides to stop wasting money on them. Then when you need them guess what.

I am VERY new here on the blog. In fact I made my first post today. I would have no problem paying X amount of $ if it would make my family and neighbors at ease. Also would a telephone alert system work? I could be way off base it's just a thought

It appears that most of us agree that the sirens are a good idea...the $$ however, seem to propose a problem. Personally, I think that anyone benefiting from them should help pay for them, including businesses and industries. Not just households....slap a few $$ on everybody's water bill or whatever, save up for them and get them...seems simple enough to me!

JW -- you're exactly right about the beer, and why Portland continues in their backward trends is beyond me. Guess they think they can garner all the revenue they need from that sewer increase or whatever else they can tax us on.

Jody for Mayor....sounds good to me, too !!

The tornado alert is a good idea...maybe they could take some money spent on the parks for one year and do something to provide some safety for the residents....I don't know about the finances of it, but it seems it should be manageable...other little towns do it.

fan- You are not reading what I have said! In 2 of my posts below I said.... "perhaps they can absorb a larger portion of this bill..... It would be a drop in the bucket for them" and "what would be so wrong of many of the factories in Portland offering to pay a portion of this cost?"

I didn't say they should FUND it completely, I said HELP by paying a portion of it!

So if we pay lets say $6. per month for 6 months, (sorry I see the phrase "a couple of bucks" in different lights depending on the situation and not necessarily $2.00) x your 3500 households = 126k that's half of the estimated cost, let the businesses and factories pay the rest. If we "the citizens" are being asked to dip into our pockets, then why should the businesses and factories be exempt?

I don't know that too many other municipalities who have such a system had ONLY it's residents pay for it! Yes maybe it was from city revenue and yes we paid for it, but so did the factories, businesses, hotels, motels, restaurants etc, etc. That's my Point!

This is why nothing ever gets done in this town. There is an idea proposed, such as what Jody has mentioned, and rather than have an intelligent debate on the issue it becomes bickering.

To those who are still against suday beer sales and any other type of LBTD because its the great evil you all claim it is......you want proof of how much revenue it can generate.....you need not go far to various towns and cities in our area to find that out.

I can sit outside of MAPCO on any given day and watch beer being carried out by the case...over and over and over....I ask this...what is the difference between a case of beer or a glass of wine?

Oh thats right....its that naughty word...."Wine".

I don't intend to stray of track here, but this is perfect proof of the benefits of communities who have progressed beyond us. If you want to know how much added revenue it would generate, see Gallatin, Hendersonville etc. Thats all the proof I need.

At least Jody is coming up with ideas...which is more than most on that council are doing. Jody, I'll say it again.....you run for Mayor and I'll be the first in line to vote for you.

I said I thought it was the responsibility of residents to fund it - not business and industry as YOU suggested.

Here are the numbers you requested. Jody said "a couple dollars a month" so let's go with that. To me, a couple is two. If it costs $250,000 and there are 3,500 households in the city (avg 3 citizens per household which is pretty accurate) each one pays $72 total. At $2 per month it takes 36 months (that's three years) ignoring the interest cost. Interest costs would tack on several more months so I'm guessing you are looking at 4 years, not 3-4 months as he said at the beginning of this blog topic. Make sense?

fan - We are being asked if we would be willing to pay out of pocket a small amount to pay for this system..... That IS asking the residents to FUND it themselves!! Not from Public Safety Funds, or any other fund already set up in the City budget!

You said about yourself..... "yes, I'm a realist. I like facts - not just numbers that are thrown out there" you obviously have the numbers for every other matter brought up so what are your facts/numbers on your statement about residents funding this type of system by themselves as I mentioned without any other source of revenue from businesses, grants, tax revenue etc which is what we are being asked to do. Not getting defensive, just asking a question.

confused? To my knowledge I called to ask that "warning sirens" be placed on the Public Safety and Legislative agendas. I was told that Mayor Wilber had already requested the same! I will NOT take responsibility for the idea, it was a request of MANY residents of this town! And stop playing the "poor Al West" crap! who's not "putting money in the budget" because they don't like Al? I can assure you that WE don't make his budget! He's usualy given what he asks for! He get's cut minor things like every other department! Councilman Callis and myself went out of our way a couple years ago to request an additional officer he needed, and was successful! So tell me! since you're soooo interested and educated in Police operations, just how many officers do we need? give me a number and I'll do MY part! But please stop this nonsense of everytime we decide to buy something, we should "put more officers on the street" instead. I KNOW we need them! but we also have to address all other areas as well!

And you're darn right! Somebody in Portland IS drinking THAT MUCH beer! We can't get "proof" of numbers, but we know it's happening!

judy, I think you're missing my point. I didn't say the residents should do it themselves. I said it was residents' responsibility to FUND it, not local businesses and industries as you suggested. Obviously the task must be undertaken by the city or other govt agency and would be funded by taxes or local assessments. I don't understand what you mean when you say you would like to see my numbers for that statement??? Finally, please don't get defensive... we're just exchanging ideas, right?

sunday beer sales........
the pro side (Jody) was asked to bring numbers. they did not because they were so small.
after looking they realized sunday sales would be lucky to generate $25,000 a year to the city.
but that doesnt stop them from claiming otherwise.

also, 3 dollars a month for 4 months would only generate $42,000.00 based on 3500 homes in the city.
it would take at least 6 dollars a month for a year to come close.

seek after federal funding for this program, then bring some numbers.

Jody likes to come up with these ideas (though not his) and then he can not tell you how it will work or how it will be paid for.

if we have a natural disaster we will still be in trouble, because some refuse to fund the extra police and fireman we need for this city.

some will not give the money in the budget because they do not like Al West.

most desicions are made out of spite or political gain; not what is best for the city.

fan - Albany International, Unipress, Thomas & Betts, just to name a few. What difference does it make, Tornados do not call ahead to make an appointment for a sunday, slow day, day time or night time appearance!! Seriously.... I never realized it was the "residents" responsibility to fund a warning system for the community. I would like to see your numbers for that statement, how many other cities have funded such a system paid solely by the residents, no Grant$, City$, Business$, Tax$ etc, can you provide details?!!! Maybe I will change my outlook on this whole situation, let the darn city pay for it out of the rainy day fund!!

I understand, Jody. It's just that people will hear that "couple of dollars a month for 3-4 months" and they'll believe it. Then you will have to tell them different. At a couple dollars a month, it will take a long time, trust me!

As for revenue from Sunday beer sales, that money gets spent every time someone has an idea! And no one has proved to me how much it will bring in, including you. The numbers are just thrown around and that's way too easy. I want to trust you as you suggest, so what would beer sales have to be to generate $250,000 for the city of Portland like you promise it would have done? (BTW, I've already calculated it - I just want to see if you can. If Portland residents are drinking that much beer, we DO have a problem!).

guess becuse not everyone uses parks its not legal to include inour taxes thank goodnes we have a skatepark very important

to portland fan, excuse me for quoting incorrect information! There was no harm meant. The mayor explained that we could do something similiar to what we did with the security fence at the water plant. I too questioned the math behind how that would work. I was just simply explaining that we could explore options such as that. I for one would like to see the sirens in place. The mapped locations indicate that it should be effective for the entire city.

P.S. sunday beer sales? had NOTHING to do with weather sirens, but trust me when i tell you it would have generated enough money to have made the purchase! Some of y'all must be against it, but I think it's foolish that we're arguing over money for this life saving tool, yet refuse to keep our money inside this city limits on sunday! Just my opinion!

I was under the impression we had been having tornados and severe weather around here for a long time. I'm sorry - I didn't realize all this just came up. I also have family working in some of the local factories and I have some knowledge of the numbers. Can you name the ones you referred to when you said "many of them are filled with hundreds of people 24/7"? Honestly, it is the residents' responsibility to fund a local emergency warning system - not local businesses. And do you seriously think they would offer to pay a portion as you say?

portlandfan - No it was never presented this way, but what would be so wrong of many of the factories in Portland offering to pay a portion of this cost? Yes they are filled with hundreds of people some of them 24/7 I have many family working in them and they are on 10 and 12 hour shifts with many working 6 and 7 days a week! I don't care what the cost per household, I will gladly pay what ever is presented, if there are those that are elderly on ss that cannot afford they should be exempt. But everyone else can afford to give up McD's, a bottle of beer, a pack of smokes, or something once a month to help pay, and YES the factories, businesses, landlords, or anyone who receives Portland services should be included as well! But you see this is what happens when the city is unable to grow with new businesses and the like, no revenue for things of this nature when they come up!!

I believe there was a statement posted earlier about assessing all the homes in Portland a fee but not all the homes would be able to hear the sirens.I'm interested in knowing how everyone feels about this.Is it fair or for that matter even legal.

Yes, it is preliminary...AND incorrect. I think Tim is probably right - our elected officials were just gauging interest. But it wouldn't have taken much time to present accurate estimates rather than just throwing out misleading information. As for the "factories" paying, it has never been presented that way. That is your idea - and one that will get absolutely nowhere at a council meeting. I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "assess" that charge arbitrarily. As for your numbers, what Portland factories are "filled with hundreds of people 24/7"? I know a little about most of the factories in town.
(yes, I'm a realist. I like facts - not just numbers that are thrown out there. Can you provide details? Thanks!)

Perhaps the numbers don't add up as for households or monthly fees and for how long, I am sure this is preliminary. Lets not forget the factories in this town, perhaps they can absorb a larger portion of this bill since many of them are filled with hundreds of people 24/7, we give them breaks to move here perhaps it is time for them to help us a little more, this is a drop in the bucket when combined by all of them, and an investment in their security as well!

Good eye Portland fan. It does not look like they have run the numbers on how much it will actually cost each house hold and for how long. I think they based the idea on past experiences with the Water Treatment plant.

They charged each water customer a (I think) $3 charge for 3 or 4 months to pay for the fence. This paid for the fence then the charge went away. But, if memory serves, the fence cost the City $50-60K whereas this project would cost $250K.

I think Jody and the Legislative Comm. may have been trying to gague the interest of the people before actually running the numbers, but you're right... the statement was very misleading.

Just curious,

Isn't there anyway for either the county or the state to absorb part of the cost for the sirens?

Be careful, folks...I see more of that new math in this proposal. Per Jody, it cost $250,000 and he suggests a couple dollars per household for 3-4 months. That equals total cost of $6.00-8.00 per household. To get to $250,000 it would take anywhere from 31,250 to 41,667 households. And that totally ignores the interest costs of financing this purchase. There aren't close to that many households in Portland, are there? Anyone else see any problem with the numbers? That extra charge may go away as he promises, but it ain't gonna be in 3-4 months!

PS - what in the world does this have to do with Sunday beer sales? :-)

I for one think the sirens are a good idea. Not everybody can watch the weather alerts on T.V. Our power goes out with every strong gust of wind and then of course we can't watch the T.V LOL And as someone else said the weather radios are very general and goes off quiet frequently when there is no danger HERE. Also, I don't believe that saying the odds of Portland getting hit are nil and so we shouldn't be concerned, my Mother-In-Law lives in Jackson TN and only lives half a mile away from Union University that hit this last time...this is the THIRD time in the last 10 years that a tornado has hit Jackson (two of them have been in just the last 3 years). This last one went right through her subdivision! I'm sure Jackson wasn't expecting to get hit again either! It's better to be safe than sorry and I would gladly pay towards sirens IF they will benefit EVERYONE, not just part of Portland.

Judy,
For you, and anyone else interested in spotter training, you can find the schedule at:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ohx/spotter.php

It includes some on-line training. I can't get certified at this time (recovering from surgery), but I was a forecaster in the Air Force for 17 years. If you or anyone else have questions, I'd be happy to arrange something to help out.

Judy,
For you, and anyone else interested in spotter training, you can find the schedule at:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ohx/spotter.php

It includes some on-line training. I can't get certified at this time (recovering from surgery), but I was a forecaster in the Air Force for 17 years. If you or anyone else have questions, I'd be happy to arrange something to help out.

SORRY GUYS, MY LAST POST HAD ALL KINDS OF MIS-SPELLING ETC IN IT...HERE IS THE CORRECT VERSION..

I think sirens are way overdue. Being from the Mid-west and having been through a number of Tornado's myself, I can tell you there is no rhyme nor reason to Tornados. They don't keep track of where they've hit before, just ask the people of Jackson Tn and Tornado's don't care who you are or how much money you've spent on safety.

Sirens are a first line defense with regard to safety, and I think they are a necessity combined with NOAA weather radio's. I think we can all be responsible for our own NOAA radio. I know Lafayette did not have sirens, I'll bet if you go over there and ask them today if they wish they had put them in when the issue came up....they will tell you they wish they would have.

I say we get them in asap.

I think sirens are way overdue. Being from the nid-west and having been through a number o Tornado's myself, i can tell you there is no rhyme nor reason to Tornados. They don't keetrack of where they've hit before, just ask the people of Jackson Tn and they don't care who you are.

Sirens are a first line defense with regard to safety, and I think they are a necessity. I know Lafayette did not have sirens, I'll bet if you go over there and ask them today if they wish they had put them in when the issue came up....they will tell you they wish they would have.

I say we get them in asap.

I would love to become a trained spotter, or anything connected to this issue, this is something I have great interest in as I deeply respect severe weather, anything I can do to be better educated, prepared or can help in any way, I'm all for it!

Let me begin by saying thanks to the city for seeing a much over need for a new warning system. We have seen an increase in tornados over the last several years. Portland has seen its fair share of them too. Around Nov 2003, Portland was hit by a tornado, my house included. Luckily no one was killed but several were injured and it struck in the night. We do not need to be thinking this will never happen again. For those that don't know, a tornado did touchdown at the bottom of the 109 ridge during this last disaster. It can always happen and we need to be ready. The sirens are a very good option, yes they are expensive, but like some have already siad, you can't put a price on life. Just because a tornado warning is issued does not mean the sirens will activate. The system is controlled from a local location, i.e. Portland Police Dept, where there is someone there 24 hrs a day. If the threat is in our vicinity, then the dispatcher or firefighter can activate the sirens. I have even seen where the sirens are divided into sectors so, not all have to be turned on. If the storm is mainly south of town we don't have to alarm everyone, just the ones in the path. The tornado sirens are virtually maintnance free too. Weather radios will wake you up, but until NOAA Weather Sertvice changes its alert system, it will continue to activate for regional areas, not just one specific town or county. I find myself shutting it off sometimes if it does not affect us, because they are really generic warnings. If the city leaders do pursue this, it does need to be planned out well. There are numerous towns nearby that have these systems in place. I ask our leaders to please visit these towns and see how they did it and run the system. Lets not think Portland is the only one doing this and not seek proper input from our neighbors. If a small increase is on my utility bill and will be removed when the system is paid off, then great. As the town grows, money from the impact fees and other construction should be used to pay for it, I dont want to have to pay again.

First of all I need to remove my foot from my mouth. Turns out Xenia has been hit again, in 2000....boy is my face red! The odds against that are really high...promise:)

Are any of the contributors on this topic interested in becoming spotters?

Also, since our money is involved, will this be something the citizens will get a vote on?

Jody, if you would like, I could put you in touch with some of my former contacts in York, Nebraska who probably would provide us with some copies of their emergency response plan. It probably outlines orders to the firefighters, safe areas, sirens, etc. Since they deal with this sort of thing with a lot more frequency than us, they probably could provide us with a template that we could use to draft one for Portland. Just give me a call.

Designated safe locations are also a great idea. We could work on having both, sirens and safe locations!

Sirens would be a great idea. However, I think an even better one would be if we had a few designated safe locations for people to go in the case of a storm. I have a friend in Jackson that took her kids to a church in her neighborhood when the tornado warning came. In the event of such storms there is someone there to open up for the community. Is there anywhere here that does that? I've lived in a mobile home before, and it's scary not having anywhere to go!

I can see all sides of this issue. However, I had the most unpleasant experience, about 5 years ago, of driving home from Bowling Green KY during a particularly bad, stormy night. Just as I was leaving the city, a tornado siren went off. It scared the living daylights out of me and the people with me. I had very mixed feelings, I had left my two teenage daughters at home alone and I was driving in severe weather. I had to decide whether or not to keep going to reach my daughters and comfort them and allay their fears, or pull over somewhere in the dark. The loud sound of the siren was eerie, but effective. I chose to keep going...my daughters were alone and frightened, so I felt the risk was worth it. My point is, the siren was a welcome warning and had I been at home, I would have taken comfort in knowing just how close the danger was. I would have been able to make choices that I might not have otherwise made. Yes, they are costly, but as mentioned by others, one life saved is certainly worth the cost. Chuck II, it only takes ONE tornado to destroy homes and take lives. I understand your point, but have to concede that I would much rather err on the side of caution than risk people's lives. I can afford a couple of $$ a month for a while to reach a very worthy goal! gw

For any of you interested in following severe weather, or just for good seven day forecasts here is a great website. You can loop the radar, zoom in or out, or look at radar from other locations. This is for Portland.

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Portland&state=TN&site=OHX&textField1=36.5859&textField2=-86.5166

Brian,
Below is a site that has a schedule for spotter training. The site also has on-line tutorials.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ohx/spotter.php

Judy, I agree that there is no amount of money worth a human life, but then again, Portland does not have an unlimited amount of money.

We, we don't live in "Tornado Alley", and as callous as it may sound, I dont think our precautions should exceed the threat. I would be willing to bet all I own that Portland will not be hit by a tornado in another 50+ years. Xenia, Ohio was destroyed in 1974, but they have not been hit again. Just the law of averages make it unlikely to happen again in a very long time. Should we raise public awareness? Absolutely! But should we spend sorely needed public funds on the outside chance of another tornado? I don't think so.

Chuck II - There is NO amount of money that isn't worth risking if it may help save lives. $250K is a drop in the bucket from what it cost the other night to shoot down that satelite. Not everyone has cable TV, and how many of you that do will loose service with just a rain storm little own severe weather, not to mention if the Power goes out. Without power we have no TV, No Radio, No Warning!! Besides that it's an investment in the community! An investment that is worth it's weight in gold if it saves even one life. Yes it is a warning and will not keep us safe, that is where our responsibility comes in, we need to have a plan, a place, and actions that need to happen by us to further secure our safety to the best of our ability.

The storms that are the worst are the ones that strike at night. People who go to bed early and don't spend the evening watching the television might not know about the weather system coming through the area. When I lived in Nebraska (aka tornado alley), every city and village had a siren. The firefighters were also trained spotters who detect potential tornado rotation. There were designated community gathering areas (downstairs at city hall and in the community gym) that people who don't have secure place could go.
What I would like to see is not only sirens in the city and at strategic areas in the county, but a group of volunteers who are trained to spot rotating wall clouds and who communicate with Sumner County Emergency Management. We also need strategic community plans in both the city and county that designate public safe areas for people who live in trailers and homes without basements can gather.

My last thoughts on this.

I hope a great deal of thought is given to this project before moving ahead. Do we really want to spend that kind of money on a system that may NEVER be used. What are the odds that Portland will ever see another tornado? When severe weather is threatening, don't most people make some attempt to monitor it on television, radio, or computer? Will those that don't pay attention be more vigilant if a siren system is installed. Will sirens really offer more protection than we already have if a tornado actually does hit us? Will we be any safer getting the warning from a siren than from television or radio? Another system, although redundant may sound like a good idea, but is it really a sound investment?

If we all had tornado proof shelters, life would be grand, but even assuming the government hands us $2600, what kind of shelter would that build?

We can debate all day long, but in the end we must each take some amount of responsibility to protect ourselves, and not count on the government to provide solutions to problems that we can deal with as individuals. There are already a number of warning systems in place to protect us. We must make the choice to pay attention to those systems that are already provided.

ok, well, now that i've logged back on and have 14 replies! :o) i didn't really get into the details in my original post. Public Safety Al West did a great job at obtaining the information related to this question. It will take 8 (eight) sirens, and there is a map that shows how they are stategically placed to "cover" everyone. The cost was near 250,000.00. and I do understand the concern about the "tax that never goes away" If it were up to me, we would have passed sunday beer sales and had money to pay for it. But that's another topic. Anyhow, we placed that "tax", if that's what you want to call it, on households a couple years ago to pay for the security fencing at the water plant which was required by law in regards to 9/11. and it did indeed go away once the amount was reached. this was just one option to fund it. I asked about grants, but it didn't appear that any were available for such a service.

One other thought about severe weather: last night on Nashville Fox News, they were talking about some states where residents can receive money (I think they said about $2600) from the federal government towards the cost of an installed "safe" room that meets federal standards. (The one they showed was under the garage floor.) Tennessee is not yet an eligible state, but the events of the past few weeks may make that possible in the future. Wonder how many residents would take advantage of such a program?

I agree with the comments already posted. While I think it is certainly a great thing to have, I absolutely think it's important that anyone asked to pay for it should benefit from it, so the number and location of such sirens would have to be set out clearly. Secondly, while a few months of such payments might pay for the installation of such a warning system, maintenance and future growth to cover new residences would also be necessary; consequently, I think it would be likely that the "few months" would turn into a neverending fee and that will get more than few people up in arms.

Oh, and I almost forgot . . . Judy, that is too funny, I'll have to try that sometime.

On a more serious note though, it really is a good idea to establish a "buddy system" for alerting each other in the event of an emergency.

But a "weather radio" does . . . it sounds off an alarm/siren whenever a warning is issued.

No matter what is decided, SOMETHING is better than nothing. But even if there was a fool-proof warning system (I'm unaware of one) it still requires the people who are aware of warnings to have ACCESS to safe shelter. If you live in a house, even a really nice, that doesn't have basement and/or a storm shelter, there will be injuries and deaths if a ground level tornado tears a path through your house. Shoot, even if you have a basement there are no guarantees.

Does anyone besides me remember when that tornado ripped through Gallatin a couple of years ago? I remember a story about a young mother who was paralyzed despite the fact that she and her two young sons were in the basement of their house? I believe the roof collapsed on top of her while she was laying on top of her boys to shield them.

Still, as I said before, SOMETHING is better than nothing.

There will always be people that don't/won't hear it, like my daughter for instance, you could set a bomb off next to her bed and she wouldn't hear it!! lol. Seriously though, not everyone will hear them, that is the case everywhere, but if they should save the majority from tornados with warnings it is worth every penny spent. If you know someone is tone deaf or tones things out maybe you should call them to alert them, I'm sure many are saying..... yeah right can't hear a tornado siren but they'de hear a phone ringing.... Well, my daughter wouldn't hear a bomb but she sure hears her cel phone ringing when I know she isn't out of bed!! Do it a couple times a week, and we're in the same house, works like a charm!..... Go figure!

TV's and radios don't wake people up in the middle of the night when a tornado has been spotted...

Here is some more interesting information. The sirens cost $15 to $20 thousand each! In addition, "Even in areas with modernized, well-maintained siren systems, vast numbers of people simply cannot hear the sirens from inside their homes or offices. As a result, tornadoes continue to kill and injure large numbers of people who would have taken shelter if they had received a proper warning." This was taken from "System for selective notification of severe weather events", dated May of 2006. http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7049971-description.html

For that kind of money, I think it would be more cost effective to buy every home/school/business a NOAA radio to monitor during severe weather events. For the cost of one siren, you could place an excellent (meaning not the cheapest) radio in 400 homes/businesses. If you purchased a cheaper model, you could reach twice that many and eliminate the worry that some would not be able to hear it over the television, or the wind itself.

Just some food for thought.

I've got mixed feelings on this. I am not convinced that a siren would provide the safety that it might have 15 years ago. When severe weather threatens, we are bombarded with television and radio warnings. We also have the ability to access radar on our home computers. I know that not everyone pays attention to this, but I also know that some don't pay attention to the sirens either.

Do we know how many tornado warnings we've had in the past 10 or 15 years? I've noticed that warnings are issued much more frequently now that they are issued based on rotation on the Doppler Radar. This also makes me a little leery of sirens, because if they are blown everytime we get a "warning", there will be a greater number of false alarms, and people will begin to ignore them as "crying wolf".

Finally, I'd like answers to the questions GW posed about financing. I am also afraid of any new tax, not matter how well intentioned. I'd also like to know how much each one costs, the effective coverage of them, and how many we'd need to cover everyone.

Thanks for looking out for us, but please proceed cautiously.

Chuck

I've got mixed feelings on this. I am not convinced that a siren would provide the safety that it might have 15 years ago. When severe weather threatens, we are bombarded with television and radio warnings. We also have the ability to access radar on our home computers. I know that not everyone pays attention to this, but I also know that some don't pay attention to the sirens either.

Do we know how many tornado warnings we've had in the past 10 or 15 years? I've noticed that warnings are issued much more frequently now that they are issued based on rotation on the Doppler Radar. This also makes me a little leery of sirens, because if they are blown everytime we get a "warning", there will be a greater number of false alarms, and people will begin to ignore them as "crying wolf".

Finally, I'd like answers to the questions GW posed about financing. I am also afraid of any new tax, not matter how well intentioned. I'd also like to know how much each one costs, the effective coverage of them, and how many we'd need to cover everyone.

Thanks for looking out for us, but please proceed cautiously.

Chuck

I'm ALL for what ever it takes to get warning sirens in this town. My request like others is don't go about it half way, make SURE you plan for enough so EVERYONE will benefit. I think you will find little opposition to something of this nature even at a fee providing it is done properly. Who knows, if FEMA includes TN into their high risk area for tornados as it looks like they might, there may be $$ down the road to help citizens get safe rooms, tornado shelters and the like.

Tim made a really good point. If everyone has to pay for it, we have to ensure that everyone will be within hearing distance of one.

I would be willing to pay whatever to help keep my family safe.

I have been checking into having a safe room or storm shelter installed at my home. I will admit that I am scared of bad storms and these last ones just hit too close to home.

My oldest daughter was in the tornado that hit Nashville a few years back and my youngest was about 1/2 mile from the last one that hit Gallatin. Neither one had warning sirens that they could hear.

Better safe than sorry!!!

If every citizen is going to pay, how many of these sirens would it take to ensure every citizen can hear it, and where would they need to be placed? If everyone is going to pay, everyone should benefit.

These questions might be better answered after it is decided whether the City even wants to persue it or not, but this will go a long way toward determining how much this will cost.

Jody, sounds like a good idea to me. Anything we can do to forwarn the residents of danger is always a good thing. However, I'm not sure how each household in Portland would pay that couple of bucks for a few months. If it is added as a tax increase for example on the utilities (water/trash), it has been my experience that anytime a new tax is added it rarely ever goes away, let alone goes away in 3 or 4 months. Please gives us some insight as to how paying for this would work. Thx, gw