Portland, Tennessee Blog

I received a response from a letter I wrote to Bart Gordon about the use of the seclusion rooms in Sumner County. He said that Tennessee currently has no state regulations concerning the use of these rooms, but that the Tennessee General Assembly is considering legislation that will regulate their use. He suggested writing to our representative Mike McDonald and Senator Diane Black to voice concerns to them about this.

Just thought I'd pass along that information.

To Anyone Concerned about these Seclusion Rooms:

I wrote to Bart Gordon about my concerns of these rooms. I got a letter from him and he shares my concerns about these rooms being used as a penalty for misbehavior. He told me that Tennessee currently has no state regulations on the use of the seclusion rooms. He told me that the Tennessee General Assembly is considering legislation that will regulate the use of these rooms. He recommends contacting Rep. Mike McDonald and Senator Dianne Black to let them know your concerns.

rep.michael.mcdonald@legislature.state.tn.us
sen.dianne.black@legislature.state.tn.us

Moose,

I just want you to know that your story has just broken my heart. There is nothing worse than knowing that there is a child who is completely unhappy and dreading going to school. If there is one thing that I do not tolerate in my classroom, it is disrespect of others. I absolutely can't stand children being mean to one another. The only advice I can offer you would be that you need to contact the board and make a complaint. I would also consider writing a letter to the mayor and I would be very specific. What you have described is in no way excusable and something should be done. Every child has the right to attend school and feel safe and secure. No learning environment can be productive if these conditions are not met. I am a teacher, but I am a mother first and foremost. If this was my child...I would have someone's job! I will be praying that your situation improves. Best of luck to you.

Sincerely,
Debbie

Daniel,
I saw on the blog here that you had some new information about the seclusion rooms and would be talking about it on your show today --- I listened and thought today's show was very informative. I don't have a student in the schools, but I am very interested in seeing that discipline be administered in a fair and safe manner...and there is no abuse of the system they have in place.

One thing though.......when you mentioned the room you were put in ...you said it held 10 students. The one that they said was at Clyde Riggs was only 3' x 4 '. That's only big enough for one student I would think...much like solitary confinement ! I haven't seen the rooms, of course, but that is the difference I see...that your situation was much like a very severely controlled study hall type situation with several other students in it. I did hear that they are going to enlarge the room at Clyde Riggs.

Anyway...I enjoyed your show today.

Michelle, thank you......I was referring to the comments from Moose -- wasn't that just heartbreaking that students have such a hard time in school these days ???
The one point Moose said was about "being out in the heat for several hours and nothing to drink".....they don't even allow that in boot camp in the Marines !!

Michelle,
Info was very good, I will bring it up again today.

Very well said DeeAnna! It truly is an extremely difficult decision to make.

Shout out to Daniel-

Are you going to talk about seclusion rooms again on your show tomorrow - er, today? (wow, it's later than I realized) Looking forward to finding out if the information I emailed you had any impact on your position.

I have been witholding any further comments about this subject because I have really said all I wanted to say, but this last posting really made me feel so bad for students at this age, and the helpless feeling that a parent gets. It shouldn't be the way it is, but unfortunately it is....that people who stand up for what is right and fair often get the bad end of things and are thought to be overbearing and troublemakers. But, it is never wrong to stand up for fairness and what is right......and I hope that this parent as well as others will find the courage to always do what's right...no matter what the consequences.

Moose-

It is so discouraging when I hear that parents don't want to confront problems due to fear of retaliation. But then again, I certainly understand where that fear originates. Been there, done that. All I can suggest is to continue what you are doing by keeping the lines of communication open with your child and just reassure him that if he changes his mind, you will take action. Good luck!

I'm not too thrilled with the Portland school system. We have experienced two amazing teachers in the whole time my children have attended. My oldest is now in middle school. He comes home and tells me all these things that his teachers are saying and doing to them. They don't want them to question anything, they don't want them to have minds of their own. They don't want to face that they are individuals. When I get ready to call the school or head up to the school my child begs me not to say anything because he doesn't want to be retaliated against. He knows that they can make his life harder if he complains or if they know that he has said something. Teachers are supposed to be a refuge. I'm so torn all the time. The boys in the middle school have it so much harder then the girls do. In my opinion both boys and girls should tuck their shirts in. Girls are just as likely to bring knives to school as boys are etc. All this rule does it teach our boys that it's okay for them to be discriminated against. For the first part of the year the boys restroom stall didn't have a door on it. I guess they figured that boys didn't need any privacy when they sat down to do their business. The teachers make negative comments about things they have no business commenting about and basically demoralizing a child or raising the student up for ridicule. My child just wants to get through it. He doesn't want to stand out etc. When he was in elementary school he was picked on while riding the bus. The bus driver never turned it in. I called and they were supposed to investigate. He ended up getting his head slammed into a window by a girl who turned out to be a teachers kid. It wasn't turned it by the bus driver, my child had a terrible headache when he got home and was throwing up, ended up having a concussion. The brilliant vice principle takes my child on the bus and makes him point out the kid in front of everyone and further add to his misfortune because now he is a snitch. It got to the point that I had a highschool girl come up to me at a Walmart and ask me how my child was because some kid had been picking on him. I asked why he didn't tell me and he said it didn't do any good. Taking him off the bus wasn't an option because we didn't have a second vehicle. I relied on them to get him to school and to make sure he was safe. It finally stopped when I called the police in my frustration and made a report with them. We found a way to take him off the bus. Because he was quiet, easy to make cry, and wouldn't defend himself because he didn't want to hurt anyone.
They were out in the heat for several hours and not allowed to get anything to drink. They weren't allowed to play with equiptment because someone accidentally got muddy so they were all punished. The boys against the girls kickball games they were forced to participate in were a joke because one of the men assistanct teachers or whatever cheated for the girls so that they could win and then lord it over the boys. They didn't really want to play because it wasn't fun anymore and it was pointless. A lovely lesson. I cringe when he comes home and feel so helpless. He says it will only get worse if I go up there and say anything. I know he is telling me the truth because I hear it all from his friends.
What is wrong with these people putting children in a room smaller then a dog kennel? Yes, some children need a quiet place to calm down but they never need to be left alone in a small room. That can create a whole lot of psychological problems.

I'm not too thrilled with the Portland school system. We have experienced two amazing teachers in the whole time my children have attended. My oldest is now in middle school. He comes home and tells me all these things that his teachers are saying and doing to them. They don't want them to question anything, they don't want them to have minds of their own. They don't want to face that they are individuals. When I get ready to call the school or head up to the school my child begs me not to say anything because he doesn't want to be retaliated against. He knows that they can make his life harder if he complains or if they know that he has said something. Teachers are supposed to be a refuge. I'm so torn all the time. The boys in the middle school have it so much harder then the girls do. In my opinion both boys and girls should tuck their shirts in. Girls are just as likely to bring knives to school as boys are etc. All this rule does it teach our boys that it's okay for them to be discriminated against. For the first part of the year the boys restroom stall didn't have a door on it. I guess they figured that boys didn't need any privacy when they sat down to do their business. The teachers make negative comments about things they have no business commenting about and basically demoralizing a child or raising the student up for ridicule. My child just wants to get through it. He doesn't want to stand out etc. When he was in elementary school he was picked on while riding the bus. The bus driver never turned it in. I called and they were supposed to investigate. He ended up getting his head slammed into a window by a girl who turned out to be a teachers kid. It wasn't turned it by the bus driver, my child had a terrible headache when he got home and was throwing up, ended up having a concussion. The brilliant vice principle takes my child on the bus and makes him point out the kid in front of everyone and further add to his misfortune because now he is a snitch. It got to the point that I had a highschool girl come up to me at a Walmart and ask me how my child was because some kid had been picking on him. I asked why he didn't tell me and he said it didn't do any good. Taking him off the bus wasn't an option because we didn't have a second vehicle. I relied on them to get him to school and to make sure he was safe. It finally stopped when I called the police in my frustration and made a report with them. We found a way to take him off the bus. Because he was quiet, easy to make cry, and wouldn't defend himself because he didn't want to hurt anyone.
They were out in the heat for several hours and not allowed to get anything to drink. They weren't allowed to play with equiptment because someone accidentally got muddy so they were all punished. The boys against the girls kickball games they were forced to participate in were a joke because one of the men assistanct teachers or whatever cheated for the girls so that they could win and then lord it over the boys. They didn't really want to play because it wasn't fun anymore and it was pointless. A lovely lesson. I cringe when he comes home and feel so helpless. He says it will only get worse if I go up there and say anything. I know he is telling me the truth because I hear it all from his friends.
What is wrong with these people putting children in a room smaller then a dog kennel? Yes, some children need a quiet place to calm down but they never need to be left alone in a small room. That can create a whole lot of psychological problems.

DeeAnna posted:
"All of Metro has ONE such room....there are 16 of them in Sumner County !"

What she meant was that there is ONLY one in Metro vs. the total of 16 we have in Sumner County.

Just a simple misunderstanding. ;)

Well, I was looking forward to Daniel's show today, if you will notice the time stamp on my comment, it was 2:50 pm....his show starts at 3 pm. When he announced the topic...I was enthused, expecting a good show.

Well, his show was a disappointment.

I'm the one who said that Metro Nashville schools had only one seclusion room in their school system and Sumner County had sixteen rooms. That was as reported on the news -- that's where I got that from. It would be interesting to get the facts on that, then.

It's a tough call to know how to handle these situations -- I just have a hard time with "jail-type cells" ( the picture they showed on the news) being in the schools...or children being put in 3' x 4 ' rooms. A lot of professionalism and compassion needs to go along with handling of these students...and many times their parents, who many times, are at their wits end, too.

I am a first grade teacher and have a few comments about this topic. First of all someone below stated that all of Metro has one of these seclusion rooms, and that is totally inaccurate. I do not have one of these rooms in my school and do not know of any in other schools either. I am very aware of my building and could draw you a map of the entire thing in the dark and blindfolded. I know what every room is used for and I promise that there are no secret torture chambers there. :)

As for the school that is placing students in a janitorial closet, well that is not a very good choice since this is obviously very dangerous room in the school building. In fact, it is my understanding that unless the janitor is in there that these rooms are to remain locked because of the hazard they present. I would say just giving a little shout to DCS or the health dept. would probably prevent them from leaving it unlocked and placing students in there. I will say, however, that we should not judge all of the seclusion rooms by this one extremely poor choice.

As far as seclusion rooms go...I can see both sides. Most of you who are very upset have your hearts in the right place. The world could use many more like you who are concerned for the children of today. But the fact is that if there is a student who is dangerous, you can't always just send them to an alternate school or juvenile. You have to go through a process because they have rights too. You haven't lived until you have been afraid of one of your students...especially for those who teach older students. Also think of this, if there is a child who has just tried to hurt your child wouldn't you want him removed where he would be unable to hurt your child and others? Each school has to do what is necessary. If these rooms are being misused then the school misusing them should be dealt with. Maybe the school board should adopt a more strict proceedure for utilizing them. Unfortunately though, seclusion is sometimes the only alternative. I can't tell you how many times that we have called parents to come and pick their unruly child up and either their phone has been disconnected, they don't answer, or even worse...they just don't come. What do you do then? You can't send them back into the classroom and you can't house an out of control child in the office always either. Remember there is a constant flow of students, parents, and teachers through there. The office must be able to continue functioning. This is just my opinion from the inside. I hope it helps!

I missed the broadcast, would someone fill me in on the discussion?

Daniel......great topic !!

Attention all Trolls, Pots and Kettles...I'm going to talk about this issue today on my show on 1270AM...hopefully we'll stir up some controversy...feel free to call in from 3-4, 325-3250

I'd be careful THP, those stones you are throwing will likely shatter that glass house you live in. Look up the "netiquette" definition of a "troll" and you will likely see your face staring back at you.

I do not use ALL caps, I use caps for emphasis, and I will gladly discontinue this practice if Charlie requests me to do so. It is his blog, so I will certainly abide by whatever rules he establishes.

However, I would like to apologize to the blogging public for allowing myself to be baited by a troll into a flame war. (new terms I learned from my research- big smiles)

I will gladly debate the ISSUES, but beginning right now I will ignore all comments that are aimed at me personally as an individual. (Unless it crosses the line of being abusive, threatening or libel at which time I will ask Charlie to deal with you)

Judy,

Thanks a lot !! I was wondering how someone could get away with using the title of someone that way...and I was wondering if someone could just simply come on, use whatever name they chose, say whatever, and then delete it themeselves whenever they wanted to.

Thanks for answering my question.

Thank you, MDL. You are exactly right. I was only offering advice and no offense was intended on my part. To Judy, THP is my signature (my initials) and it does not appear in the post you refer to - only in the sig at the bottom. It's not considered shouting when it is the signature. You may not take offense to posting in caps, but you are in the minority. Michelle, if you had done what I suggested, your research would find, and I quote (meaning I didn't say this, someone else did!), "Do not type in all caps. Typing in all caps is considered yelling or screaming online. Those who type in all caps are perceived as lazy or ignorant and not being considerate of those who will read their posts". So be it.

DeeAnna
You're not blind, with the alias they used and their scarcastic post, administration probably felt deleting it was appropriate. And I don't blame them, there is liability to be looked at when allowing someone to post with such an alias and the comment made. So to answer your question, only the Administrator of the Blog or the Topic's Author can delete someone elses post.

Someone tell me if I'm wrong or blind, ok ?

I was looking for a posting that I had responded to the other day....from a person who signed his comments from...."President of WSMV" ---
it's gone now !

Can the person who wrote their comments remove them ???

Or does the administrator of the site remove them?

Just wondering about this.

I can't use caps, but it's g - o - n- e !

I wish someone would explain this to me.

I think THP was just being kind and offering advice. Actually THP is right. In the world of netiquette, all caps is screaming. That's about the only tried and true 'rule' to any of them, lol. And yes, Michelle's posts always get her point across time and again. So no need for the caps. THP was just offering advice. I read this quote somewhere in the past and thought it was quite wise: "If you find what I write as of use and helpful, great, if not, disregard and move on. No harm done!"

THP <- Excuse the Caps but that is how you typed your name, as for Michelle using caps, I myself don't find a problem with the use of caps for emphasis, we have been reading her posts for many months now and I can't recall anyone prior to now finding a problem with this, granted when one types their entire post in caps it can be a bit hard to read. Those of us that have been around the internet for ages are aware of internet etiquette, we also know when to realize that someone is not screaming just because they used CAPS in part of their post. Unfortunately with this software, people placing comments don't have the ability to Bold, Underline or italicize text when there is a need for emphasis. Just my opinion. I don't recall reading your posts before now, welcome to the blog & enjoy!

THP: ROFLMBO!! (oops, there I go again with those "caps". I admit it, I'm incorrigible)

Back on topic, what is your opinion of seclusion rooms? Do you even have one or are you simply trying,to keep me in line? (some friendly advice: don't waste your energy, it's a losing battle)

Michelle,

It may be off topic, but I urge you to lay off the caps lock when you post to blogs. If you review your posts, all of them contain caps which, to us as readers, means you are shouting or screaming. We don't need that emphasis. If you will type in normal font we can read and understand it just fine - you don't need to add emphasis in every sentence. If you want to see what I mean, review any one of your prior posts. I don't think you'll find one that doesn't have it, and lots of it at that. You profess to be quite a researcher; try researching internet etiquette and see what you find.

If your child is in the wrong, you should back the school up (I have and I will), but if your child is being wronged, you should back up your child.(I have and I will) It works BOTH WAYS. If that makes me a "troublemaker", so be it.

I know all too well how retaliation works, but it's a relatively small price to pay in comparison to teaching my children to allow people to mistreat them or to accept be falsely accused of something.

DA-

Thank you for your comments. I am sorry to hear that you have experienced what I was talking about.

It's a sad commentary on our school system that honesty, fairness, and the welfare of the students isn't put first above all else. School, of all places, other than the home, is where a child should know that when he goes there, he will be treated fairly and be given the example of proper problem solving, instead of being taught that it's best to keep quiet and never bring an issue to light for fear of being labeled a trouble-maker.

There should be no fear of questioning anything in our school system or asking questions about policy or anything that goes on in the school.

The teachers are afraid for their jobs, the administration is afraid for theirs: everyone is "playing the game"...and the most fearful of all are the children...they are caught in the middle..and they and their parents dare not say a word.

All I know about the new principal is that his last job was at RT Fisher, the alternative school.

DA - You are sooooo correct about the possible after effects once you complain. Believe me it HAPPENS even in Elementary School! And is why my grandson was finally pulled and placed in another school, might I add, he received Student of the month 2 times there after, once in the last grading period of Kindegarten at the new school and again this past year in 1st grade!

DeeAnn
You made one comment that I feel I need to respond to. You said, "Parents won't speak out for fear of their child being singled out." Truer words were never spoken!

I too, have had two children in the Portland school system, and had more than once incident when I approached the administration at the High School. As a result of my questioning a policy or problem in the classroom, my child was labeled a troublemaker, and from that point on, (Sophomore year), was treated like a bad kid. In fact, this child actually told me, "Why should I try? No matter what I do, they assume the worst of me." The teacher in question was buddies with the principal, and I had the nerve to complain about her.

From that point on, I learned to put up with unrealistic and unfair situations because I had seen how a child is treated whose parents dare to complain about a situation at the high school.

I hope this new principal is more fair-minded that Ms. Grogan was. Anybody know anything about the new leader of our high school?

True, the media does sensationalize things, BUT...had it not been for that story, I, for one, would have never known that little children are being put in janitor's closets to await their parents coming to the school to get them. This, to me, is apt to happen a lot more times than the "cell" for unruly children. Since this story came out, I've had another parent tell me an incident that happened to their child when their child was that age. Parents won't speak out for fear of their child being singled out or for other reasons while their children are in school. They don't want to be seen as "trouble-makers" because it really does affect their child's whole school career if they speak out.
I,as a senior citizen, however CAN and I always will. I have written my Congressman over this issue and urge everyone to do the same. My child did go to Clyde Riggs a long time ago...had he ever been put in a closet....it wouldn't have been just an entry on a Blog.....I would have gotten a lawyer and it would have been discussed in court !
Little children deserve better than this from their teachers, who are supposed to be "role models".
I just see a lot of apathy anymore --that's why these things continue. No one really cares as long as it's not their child.

I think the point is the media thrives on sensationalizing because that's what gets the band wagon rolling. Can't always believe what we read or see on TV as being the whole truth. There's always more than one side of the story and worthy of investigating and bringing to light. But usually after the media gets a hold of it and stirs the pot, the other side is darned if they do and darned if they don't.

Michelle,
Looks like you're being baited here by some. Don't fall prey, that's what they enjoy......

Well, to the child in the closet, I'm sure this debate is a good one...and a very necessary one.
And to the parents of any child this news story is very important...and that other people are interested enough to try to do something to correct this "occasional negative" thing going on in the Sumner County Schools. By, the way, that remark really irked me. It's like saying to the cancer patient, "well, let's just focus on your overall good health, let's not dwell on this cancer cell here".....

And as for using the title of the President of WSMV, I'm sure he wouldn't think too highly of you for doing that !!

Please make your point. What is the other side that you feel is not being represented?

Sincerely yours - Using the term restraint, I was talking about "physical" restraint, which one can REASONABLY ASSUME is used to get a child INTO a seclusion room.

If a child is NOT combative, and restraint is NOT needed, then they are NOT a SERIOUS threat, and it's NOT an emergency, and that would make use of the seclusion room INAPPROPRIATE.

As to the question about being children being left unattended and/or the amount of time being left in the room . . . that was brought into question when they showed a picture of a "gravity lock" that remained in the "locked" position even though no one one holding it AS WELL AS GRAFFITI INSIDE THE ROOM.
I couldn't tell whether it was "written" or "carved" but either way it is indicative that no one was monitoring them at that time NOT TO MENTION THAT AN OUT OF CONTROL CHILD WHO WAS CONSIDERED A THREAT TO THEMSELF OR OTHERS HAD AN OBJECT THAT COULD BE A POTENTIAL WEAPON. Where is the logic in that?

Before heading off to work, I want to make one addition to last night's post. It is not my intention to be combatative with anyone. I only want us to keep our focus on the good we have in our Portland schools and not dwell on the occasional negative.

Don'tmake, thank you for asking for clarification. In my statement concerning ALL parents, I was referring to all parents that have students with BIPs. The school board policy is that those are the parents that are made aware of the room.

Debra, I hear what you are saying about the severe behavior problems not needing to be in the public school system. However, our state and federal laws say that all children are entitled to an education--not just the well behaved ones. I am sure that many others--in and out of schools--have reason to disagree with these laws but that is why it is called PUBLIC education.

Also, when I referred to an isolated incident I meant that a parent was claiming no knowledge of the seclusion policy and that was what is isolated because it is my understanding that parents are told that upfront. And we DO know when and where these rooms can be used because the Board policy regulates it. Once again, they are only used for severe behavior disruptions. Remember that there are always two sides to a story and just because the parent on TV said something, doesn't make it so. Nor does what I say make it so. Yet, being open-minded helps keep down hysteria.

Michelle, have you read or seen anything about Sumner County using restraints and leaving the students in seclusion unattended or for lengthy amounts of time? I haven't. You are right about the rooms needing to be used only for extreme cases and I truly believe that is when they are used.

It is my understanding that school board policies are public documents and may be read by anyone that is interested. To those curious, just a well-informed citizen here.

That's awesome that many volunteer. I know a lot of times I've witnessed parents who couldn't even tell you who their child's teacher is and so forth. Yet they would be the ones in the front of the line complaining about their child being wronged for something. So I think it's great to get involved!! Bravo, you should be commended!!!

Pot-
I didn't even know that rooms like that existed in our SCHOOLS, and NONE of my 4 children have ever been placed in one so I don't know why you think I am the one who reported it to the media. But if I had, everyone on here should know by now that I wouldn't have done it anonymously.

I have been responding to the question posed by the author of the thread and I have extremely strong feelings about the ISSUE.

I can only assume that you are somehow associated with the school since you seem hell bent on shifting the focus off the issue and onto me, but I noticed a key component missing from your post. You didn't dispute what I said. WHY? I think I know . . . it's because what I am saying is TRUE and you don't have a valid defense for the school system's inappropriate utilization of seclusion rooms.

I hold people who are entrusted with my children to an extremely high standard, and that's not going to change, so you can just get over yourself because I will continue to address these issues head on and be assured, you will never have to wonder whether it's me or not - you'll know it!

Pot-

I was not even aware of such a room existed in our SCHOOLS and none of my 4 children have every been placed in one, so I don't know why you think it's me.

I am responding to the question posed by the author of the thread and I feel very strongly about it. I have always and will continue to say what's on my mind and I'm not afraid who knows I say it. I don't have to be anonymous.

As far as a "grudge", I don't have a "grudge". I have serious concerns and complaints about specific issues and it is MY JOB as a parent to be involved. When my children do something wrong, they are disciplined and I hold people I entrust my children with to a very high standard.

I understand that you are hell bent on trying to shift the focus off the ISSUE but you failed to dispute the FACT that what I said was TRUE. Why? Because you can't! Get over YOUR grudge with ME and start worrying about how to remedy this horrific practice that these schools of ours have been utilizing.

Well, I have to say... if I had a child in school today....it would be a private Christian school, or homeschool. There is too much wrong with the public school system and for whatever reasons...it doesen't look like it's going to get any better. It's bad enough to have to fear bullying and harrassment from other students, but fearing the teachers and the system is just inexcusable.

Over the years I have spent several hundred hours volunteering, making calls, going to meetings and writing letters. I have always been very involved. I also started homeschooling my youngest child this past school year. (I wish I had started sooner!)

Ladies & gentlemen, I believe we have identified the culprit (or kettle) :o)

MDL,

I volunteer at the elementary school in my neighborhood and help when I can at the different activites during the year.
I am very interested in our school system here and am very distressed when I hear these things that are coming out now. I had no idea children were put in closets to wait for their moms, and no idea of seclusion rooms, except in the alternative schools. In all of Metro Nashville, there is ONE such room....why are there 16 of them in Sumner County ?? This is a question I think needs to be addressed.
I'm very thankful the media brought this to everyone's attention.

Sincerely yours....I'm very confused.

You state:
"In most schools, the majority of teachers and students are not aware of the rooms".

Then you state:
"ALL parents are made aware of the behavior plan and must acknowledge understanding of the use of the room".

How can ALL parents be aware of the room but not teachers and students?

From your post you sound like a teacher. If so, are you aware the rooms exist?

Sort of off topic, but....
Out of curiousity, how many of you volunteer at local schools where your children/grandchildren attend? I know teachers can always use the help, in many ways, as they are in a noble profession that is massively underpaid. And they don't receive near the support they used to, granted it was never a large amount at any time in the past either. Do any of you attend the Board of Education Meetings on a regular basis? I'm not from here originally, but have always been in towns where the parents, especially the concerned ones, played a MAJOR role in the school system (whether it be volunteering at the school or whatnot and they always attended the meetings). Seems the school system and teachers here always get a good bashing, so I was just curious of everyone's involvment.

THP wrote "It is terrible that this parent who chose to remain anonymous (and we all know who she is) used the tactic of going to the media and getting them on this. But she obviously has issues with the school system and wants to create a stir any way she can. We know that from prior posts."

I am curious to know how you would know who ANYONE is on this post since most post anonymously, INCLUDING YOU!!! I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

We are ALL imperfect people, living in an imperfect world, and becoming an educator does NOT change that fact. I have yet to meet a "perfect person".

I have a simple question that everyone can answer-

How many times, if any, have you EVER heard a teacher or the school system accept responsibility, even PARTIAL responsibility, for a problem? Personally, I have YET to ever experience this rare phenonemon!

MY NAME IS POSTED BELOW

It's issues like this and others that I send my kids to private school.

3'x4' is even smaller than a jail cell. Do they have access to a restroom?

I'm uninformed on this but, if these kids are this much trouble. Why are they still in school and not Juvenile?

THP - You are surely confusing me with this comment "But she obviously has issues with the school system and wants to create a stir any way she can" would you care to elaborate? I see nothing within this thread that warrants pointing a finger to anyone here.

DebraP. - Love your last paragraph!!

The news thread did state that the room at Clyde Riggs is one that is slated for improvements/modifications, so by the sounds of that comment I am guessing it to be one of the smaller very out dated rooms since Clydd Riggs I believe is one of the oldest schools in Portland.

Diamond Joe-
I understand that your reaction to the outrage being expressed is due to ignorance on the issue, so I urge you to do what DeeAnna suggested and take some time to educate yourself.This is NOT about whether or not a child should be DISCIPLINED for disruptive behavior, but rather about the inappropriateness of the use of seclusion rooms for this purpose.

Seclusion rooms should NEVER, and I mean NEVER be used as a "punishment" or for "convenience".
There is absolutely ZERO theraputic value to seclusion, it is only intended for use in the MOST EXTREME CASES where a child has become so unstable that they pose a SERIOUS THREAT OF HARM TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS and even then, it is IMPERATIVE that they be monitored CONTINUOUSLY!

As recently as a few weeks ago, a 17 year old DIED
while in the care of a program called C.H.A.D.D., located in Clarksville, after being restrained and secluded due to disruptive behavior. Even in
that type of environment, with professionals who are TRAINED EXTENSIVELY, it is a very risky practice. IT HAS NO PLACE IN SCHOOLS!!!!!!

Sincerely yours, If a child has bad enough behavioral problems that they need to be placed in a 3 x 4 room to "calm" them down then they do NOT need to be in the public school system. If these rooms are being used for this reason then it shows that teachers are not trained to handle these situations.

The room that channel 4 showed might have been from another school but the fact remains that Clyde Riggs DOES have one of these rooms. I have no idea what size the room is and it does not
matter.

What "isolated" incident are you refering to?
I wouldn't call doing something 163 times as "isolated".

You have no idea when and where a school might use one of these rooms. Using it just once is one too many times.

I have 3 grandchildren in Portland schools and I can guarantee you if this ever happens to one of them that their mothers, fathers, and grandparents will be jumping up and down on someones desk and DEMANDING an answer.
Oh, I pity the teacher that even thinks of doing this to one of my grandchildren.

sincerely yours,

Well said! I agree with you that Portland has among the finest schools, teachers and administrators in the county. It is terrible that this parent who chose to remain anonymous (and we all know who she is) used the tactic of going to the media and getting them on this. But she obviously has issues with the school system and wants to create a stir any way she can. We know that from prior posts. I'm sure there's more to come.

I must speak up in regard to the seclusion room issue. First, WSMV forgot to inform us that the pictures of the room that they are showing are from the alternative school in Gallatin and not from Clyde Riggs. Second, as referenced by Michelle, the ONLY children that are ever exposed to this setting are those with BIPs and that have had all other avenues tried before reaching this step (which is VERY seldom).

These are children with very severe behavior problems---hurting other students and teachers and being violent outside and inside the schools---who need to learn anger management and sometimes need a calming place to avoid hurting self or others. Standard classrooms do NOT have any need or use for these rooms. In most schools, the majority of teachers and students are not aware of the rooms.

As parents, we must use our logic and realize that "sour grapes" occur in many situations. Note that the news report said that ALL parents are made aware of the behavior plan and must acknowledge understanding of the use of the room. Remember that sometimes when things don't go just as we want, we start placing blame anywhere we can. Would you consider that this could be the case here?

I believe that all of our Sumner County schools and teachers are only trying to follow the behavior plans that have been implemented by behavioral experts. Also, schools must take whatever program the Central Office requires them to do. In this day and age of the instant lawsuit, do we really think that a school would decide to intentionally do anything that went against board policy?

Having experienced most of the county's schools at one time or other, I can say that I believe that we have the best schools, teachers, and administrators here in Portland. I know that many of you feel this way too. Let's not let this isolated incident cloud our vision.

Judy, my son also went to Clyde Riggs a long time ago. He is now in the Navy, but I am just in shock at what is going on there. I have sent a letter to Bart Gordon and am writing to the School Board to voice my shock and anger over these practices.

Something is VERY wrong in the Sumner County School system.

Nicole - This happened to my grandson atleast 5 times within 6 months, 2 times because of his tight waistline and the other 3 were when he was Ill, my daughter repeatidly questioned as well the use of the Janitor closet and questioned why the chairs in the office were not being used, the last time she wanted to prove a point which she did when she got him to come outside of the school alone without anyone seeing him go out the door. Sad when one has to prove to the school why what they are doing is not only dangerous, not acceptable but also places the child at risk for other more serious problems.

I think these "Cell" Rooms are totally out of line, the news quoted sumner county as using them 163 times last year, that is unacceptable. My grandson now goes to Clyde Riggs as did my Granddaughter and I have nothing but PRAISE for this school and their staff, they are wonderful, I am shocked to hear about the incident there. I never would of thought it.......

Diamond Joe,

I simple timeout is one thing....being put in a "cell" with a locked door like some sort of criminal is entirely another. It is wrong.

Wasn't there recently a story in the news about a kid somewhere in middle tennessee who was locked in a cage, and not fed and at age 15 weight about 50 pounds. I believe his parents went to prison. Perhaps they were placed in a cell as children?

Also about spanking, yes I do spank my children but only when all other means fail. DO NOT get me started on this whole religious belief about spanking. NO WHERE in the bible does it say to spank your children, and the verse that you religious folks are always referring to about sparing the rod. Has NOTHING to do with spanking.

So while I believe spanking has a place, I don't spank because some twisted religous belief tells me to, I spank because I believe when used properly it is an effective corrective and teaching tool. I certainly do not believe in the beat it first and talk to it later mentality.

By the way Diamond Joe....you don't happen to be on the staff at Clyde Riggs do you?

Diamond Joe - your posting shows you have no knowledge of the issue. Enough said.
Do some research and read about seclusion rooms -
this is no simple issue of quiet time or time out.

What do you think it teaches a child to be put in a janitor closet for an hour to wait for his mom to come bring him some pants ...what if that child had asthma or medical condition and something happened to him in that closet ??

Did you even read the posting about the kindergarten child who was put in the closet for an hour while waiting for his mom to get to the school ???

You think that is ok ???

First spanking, and now no timeout? What sort of discipline would be acceptable to the bleeding hearts of the world? How would you handle a child who has never been disciplined before because his/her parents were lazy drunks and has no idea how to behave in a structured setting? This is just the simple concept of timeout, something I thought the folks from the whiny pro-shelter-your-kids-so-they-won't-explode-till-college camp would be able to accept...

I, too, will be writing a letter to the Sumner County School Board, as well.

Anyone who has had an experience like this with the school system and/or has knowledge of these things happenings needs to get it in the media...call tv stations, get it out there for the public to know about !! Do not allow the schools to get away with this treatment of children...and keep it quiet or hidden.

JW - you're so right. What else don't we know ??

I am so fearful for children now in schools...and I'm not even there. Imagine how the children feel ??? Every day going to a school where they know that down the hall is a "cell" waiting if they become "disruptive" to a teacher...or will be put in a janitor closet while waiting for their parent ????

No such thing would have ever existed in a school when I was a child. I just am still in shock.

Something has got to be done about this.

Judy,
I know what you are talking about at North Sumner. My child goes there and last year ripped his pants on the playground. Thank goodness i am a stay at home mom and could get to him fairly quickly with a new pair of pants. But he too was in the janitors closet awaiting my arrival. When i questioned this practice it was handled as if this was a fairly normal thing. The children were to embarrised to go back to class so they could wait there for their parents. I quickly informed them that the chairs in the office worked just fine and should something like this happen again that better be where i find him waiting for me. I understand if a child doesnt want to go back to class but having them wait in a closet filled with chemicals is a very bad idea. The fact that adults in charge of the wellfare of our children dont recognize this is down right scary.

I too saw this on the news last evening. I do not normally watch channel 4 but in this case I am glad I did.

I agree with all that has been said. THIS IS WRONG!!!! Our children should not be treated as animals and this is what this is.

If I ever found out that this has ever happened to either one of my children I will personally go to the school and someone else will be going it to this little room and it won't be me!

I am here to serve notice that I will be contacting the Sumner Co. School board and demand that this be put to a stop immediatly.

If they have been doing this for this long with very little knowledge of it....it makes me wonder what else has been going on without our knowledge?

If anyone from the Sumner County School Board is reading this....I as a parent, and tax payer demand that you stop this practice immediatly. Do away with these rooms immediatly.

Seems to me that there are tons of rooms in a school that could be used if a child were out of control without throwing them is a little room. Ever heard of a principles office?

I saw a like story a few weeks back on one of the other news channels, it reminded me of when my Grandson went to North Sumner Elementary when he was in KINDEGARTEN. Every time he wore pants that were too tight for him to fasten his self, they would send him to the office, call his parents to bring him another pair of pants, they worked in Nashville and took about an hour to get there, they put him in the JANITORS Closet across the hall from the office and he had to wait there for over an hour!! That's right.... a Janitors closet, full of chemicals, and to boot, mom was able to come to the school, look in the front door of the school where she could see him waiting, motioned for him to come outside, he did and NOT A SOLE noticed he had left!!

Needless to say he doesn't go there anymore! There are some serious issues within our schools but they place the blame on the almighty dollar, not enough funding!

Seclusion should only be used as a LAST resort in instances where a child is so out of control that they pose a serious threat of harm to themselves or others. It is NOT supposed to be used as punishment/discipline and it is NOT "time out"!!!In fact, I would venture to say that if the schools using the seclusion rooms to the extent that has been reported, that the rooms are being used inappropriately. There are also likely to be a number of parents who were not adequately informed of, or who didn't understand the serious ramifications that are associated with such practices.

I would suggest that all parents who have given their consent to subject their child to this practice, to rescind their permission and INSIST on having a BEHAVIORAL ANALYSIS conducted by Sumner County's Behavioral Specialist.

Once that is completed, a Behavior Intervention Plan (BIP) will be developed. If your child already HAS a BIP and it isn't effective, the "team" needs to reconvene and figure out WHY it isn't working and possibly go back to the drawing board, but seclusion rooms should NOT be listed except in the MOST EXTREME CASES and even then, it should not be listed without consultation with a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL that is INDEPENDENT OF THE SCHOOLS.

I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH!!!
This is NOT something to play around with. There are DOCUMENTED cases where, even with properly trained professionals using these methods "by the book", children have DIED as a result.

DeeAnna,
I think you are absolutly right that something is wrong here. Unfortunatly this isnt new. These types of rooms are in facilities from hospitals to schools all over this country. I saw children be put in them 20 years ago, how long they existed before that I dont know. Some call them "time - out" rooms and you've heard them as "seclusion rooms". I didnt grow up here, my father was military so we moved around alot. So I dont know how long they have been in this area but I know this isnt a new concept. Some of the rooms I saw had what was like handles built into the floor and we were told that those were for retsraints in case a child was really unruly. I dont know if that was a scare tactic for us children to ensure we behaved but I did know kids who said they had been used on them. I know as a child I was terified of this idea.
I think a very interesting question has been posed. If you put your child in time out seated in a chair in the corner this is acceptable. Why is it acceptable for people to put our children in a closet environment as time out?

Oh, my gosh...I just read the news story on www.wsmv.com about those rooms !!

All of Metro has ONE such room....there are 16 of them in Sumner County !

Something is BAD WRONG here....and needs investigating seriously.

No child should ever be put in a room like this at school. This is prison or mental hospital treatment. I am in shock.

Yes !!! I have a big problem with it.
I didn't see it on the news, yet and didn't know they were doing it here in Portland, but putting a child in seclusion like this is enough to traumatize them for the rest of their life. What kind of people are on the School Board that could think of something like this, much less adopt it?
I can't imagine being put in a 3' x 4' space as a punishment......it wouldn't teach me anything, except that adults didn't know how to discipline or correct me properly, so they just lock me up somewhere to get me out of the way. Whoever thought this up was CRAZY...and needs to be locked up themselves. Do they really shut the door and go away for a time ????