Portland, Tennessee Blog

What in general programs exist for the help family with low income? WBR LeoP

the career businesses in this town are scared to death of any competition coming here. theres nothing wrong with owning a successful business, but you should not try to supress other businesses from
coming here. vote yes on liquor by the drink and sunday beer sales this time and keep more tax dollars here so the city council doesnt have to fleece us on more needless "fee" and tax increases.

This discussion has wandered into the pros and cons of shopping in Portland. Along those lines, I just want to post an observation I made last Saturday, Jan 20th. The Portland gas stations were charging around $2.09 / gal for regular. Gallatin and Lebanon (along the interstate, even!) were charging $1.98 /gal. Franklin, KY was even less expensive. It's incidents like these that cause me to question whether Portland's merchants really want our business. I certainly don't select my shopping destinations on the price of gas alone, but it is a factor.

I agree with Don't Make Me Laugh, most people would shop in Portland because of convienience rather than Franklin, I know I would. Some of the stores here have great customer service, some don't. That's the same in every town.

I don't agree with MG's comments!
I shop in Portland as much as I can. I do most of my grocery, drug store, gas, flowers, and misc shopping here but there are times I have to go outside the city to find what I am looking for and most of the time that trip is to Franklin Ky. It's not because of the taxes it is because it is the most convenient for me and I'm not a beggar or a cheapskate!! If Portland wants to keep the tax dollars in Portland then give the people what they need!!

When there have been opportunities to shop in Portland, Portland still took the business elsewhere. It's what Portland does. The citizens are trained to do so from early years. It is called culturalization.

I agree with some comments about larger facilities. The city granted alot of incentives to building monuments to industry, but he vast majority of employees actually live OUTSIDE Portland, the corporate ownership is usually also outside Portland, and taxes were probably ceded to get a building, so not much benefit comes from all that. I have witnessed so much of this in so many areas.... the false promise of box-stuffing jobs. NO PROFIT IN IT AT ALL AND NO LOCAL BENEFIT IN THE LONG RUN. It is the story of many towns like Portland.

While all that was going on, little was done to strengthen local commerce. The Chamber was a retirement village run by unqualified personnel. The city was debating issues their fathers debated. Churches sprang up everywhere. Zoning was neglected. Etc Etc Etc....

I stand by the illustration earlier of $5.00 vs $15.00 for the same item. I know it to be a fact.

Portland cannot keep anything because when it complains long enough and someone DOES put it in Portland, there is a sadistic death-wish on the business or business-owner to fail. Portland will show up the first 30-90 days, and then go back to its habits of shopping out of town. It wants everything for nothing, and if it doesn't get it, well then money leaves town.

Think back in your mind on so many things that have come and gone... underneath it all is the same old story. And if anyone tries to mention it on this site, they are called anti-Portland, because no one wants to admit that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, Portland has a bad attitude against its own success.

I've lived here but a few years, and reading on this site I couldn't help but put in my two cents.

This town is stuck in the 60's with the future of a long lost town that failed to move on with the times. I find it hard to believe that people will accept this for a way of life except maybe those that have lived here all their life and are perfectly happy with nothing!

I read the article in the paper about the Health Department coming to Portland, but what everyone failed to see is... why! Over 4,600 visits were by Portland residents at the Gallatin and Hendersonville facility. What does that say about Portland people, they are lacking the means to provide for their Health care, probably no insurance and limited incomes. Which leades me to believe their employment status is far below standard..... And the city government brags about bringing all these great industries to this town that will better the community with Great jobs and make us grow stronger!! Don't get me wrong, I think having this facility locally is a good thing especially for those who really need it.

Shopping in Portland is not an option, there is only one REAL gift shop and that is at Occasions, pricy yes, but at least there is some quality. The other so called gift/flower shop.... I stepped into there once, and right back out!! Florists, the one on main street is probably one of the nicest, well presented, reasonably priced, with a very pleasant staff. Have done business with all the others without much satisfaction. Forget about dining out in this town. SO what else does portland have?? Two Grocery stores that are way below standard, Three five & dime type discount stores, a half dozen substandard drug stores, a gazillion check cashing places & fast food artery clogging eateries, and a half dozen hair cutting salons. Wow!!! There's no place like home!!!

Now Jessica, you know if you don't eat McDonald's everyday and buy all your clothes at the Factory Connection, you're anti-Portland. What gets me is the state has given a lot of the factories around here huge tax breaks and incentives to move here and what does Portland get out of it? A few select people profit, but not the whole. Maybe the money comes out of state and federal money but it's still taxpayer money. If the state would give money to restaraunts and such maybe we'd have something that would actually benefit everyone.

I apologize, my sentence should say "You CAN'T expect people to settle for items that they don't want to "support" Portland" not can :)

I wouldn't say I am beating the system..I am merely making a better money saving decision..I am not sure where you get your item prices,but let me give a few examples...Why would anyone want to pay $2.25 a gal. for gas here when just less than 5 minutes (from my home,anyway) gas prices are $2.06?? That may not mean much to you,but my husband and I who are raising our family on a budget, it means the world of difference..and as far as the food/clothing issues...Food Lion is a poor excuse for a grocery store..they have a small selection on just about every item,and rarely carry an item I am looking for,the cashiers are rude,lines are long,need I go on?..HG Hills are overly priced..I can not believe the prices they have on some items...it is just ridiculous..and let's talk retail...what do we have? Factory Connection and one consignment store??? You can expect people to settle for items that they don't want to "support" Portland..There is nothing offered here..we have to bring places that will attract shoppers and diners...but until that happens, we will not be able to grow...

That great story in the Leader was written a week ago in the Progressive, FYI. Plus the county and state are paying for the new building, all the city would be responsible for is utilities. MG, I think everybody understands the tax structure but people want to save money now, not next week. That's why they shop in Franklin.

It's me again. I just read in The Portland Leader that the Health Department is looking into the possibility of a satellite office here in town. Hurray! What a great idea!

Then I read the rest of the article. The first step, according to Director Mary Hayes, is to hire an architect to "gather more information" on the proposed $650,000 building.

Hello?!? One thing that Portland has is plenty of empty buildings, many of them suitable for a clinic. In fact, there is a former Doctor's office for sale across the parking lot from Azteca and the gazebo. Why spend hundreds of thousands of our tax dollars to build a new building? Can any of the wise decision makers for our town please answer that question?

About the growth of Portland; I myself am from a small town, so I understand the nature of the beast. A small town is a great place to live -- if you were born there. If not, you will always be a person who is "not from around here". I agree with MG, who says that the problem with Portland's lack of growth is Portland.

I don't think those who make the governing decisions understand basic economics; sure, there are a lot of industries going up around us, but if they are low- or minimum-wage jobs, there will be a lot of people in town who can barely make ends meet. Those people do not eat in nice restaurants or shop at upscale department stores, or live in higher priced homes. They are struggling to raise a family, and sometimes find it hard to be hopeful.

I see our young people "cruising" through school, if they even bother to graduate. And after high school, they can look forward to a career in a fast food chain or in a warehouse. I would have a hard time getting excited about a future like that, wouldn't you? I believe the schools need to toughen up a little; expect the students to do their best by stretching their abilities. Rather than making the classes so easy that anyone can pass them, make them a challenge, so the students have to work hard and study to achieve excellence. Then make Portland a place where they can live and raise their families, instead of leaving town and never coming back. The measure of growth should be the success our young people in real life, not the number of trophies they won during their four years at PHS.

Part of the problem with the "shop here/shop there/tax high/tax low" argument posed by so many people on this blog is the absolute lack of understanding of micro- and macro-economics.

Jessica, you state that you shop elsewhere to save on taxes. I assume you must mean Franklin, KY. So, you save on sales taxes here or there, and then you assume you beat the system.

What you fail to consider is that your purchases and those of others lowered the sales revenues in Portland and also Sumner county/Tennessee. That means that sales taxes declined locally, and economic development and governmental services that would have been funded by the tax revenues is non-existent or shortfalls. Schools do not have the resources to provide newer resources for student education, roads go unpaved, sewer systems go unrepaired or upgraded, and so on.

But, since those things MUST get done, local government passes higher property taxes, and schools send students into local businesses or your home to beg for money to do things necessary for their programs. Eventually, you pay. You just don't see it.

As to the beggar/cheapskate comment.... I stand by it. Portland wants local businesses to sell products/services FAR BELOW neighboring city merchants and far below REASONABLY ACCEPTED NORMS for merchandise/services, or they will pay MORE and travel. They have a general philosophy that any local merchant should not be making money for his/her efforts, and that their are OWED donations and monies from merchants they do not patronize. Most local customers argue price constantly, and want everything for nothing. Local merchants get ripped alot.

One last thing.... if you are only calculating taxes in your decision. If a local merchant sells a product for $5.00 that costs $15.00 in Franklin, I believe you would still travel to Franklin, pay the $15.00 and pass the Portland merchant altogether, because in your mind you BELIEVE you are saving money by doing so, and you would not consider a price comparison in your decision. You would be default just assume that the cost was higher in Portland. Your comparison, however, would be $5.45 vs $15.90, or a net loss of $10.45 PLUS the property tax hit. I know for a fact this type of comparison happens on a daily basis and is not hypothetical.

As to the beer issue... it no longer matters. Portland lost that one. Even if you passed it today, surrounding cities have the advantage of time and development. It will not help pull business to Portland. The O'Charleys of the world will be built in Franklin, near Walmart and the new Lowes. Portland will travel there to shop and eat. Those stores will not put another location so close by, as it would cannabalize sales for their anchors.

MG,how do you come to the conclusion that Portland customers are "beggars or cheapskates"? I do not shop in Portland often because it is a rip off to pay such high taxes when mere minutes away I can save 50 bucks off my grocery bill..I find that practical..If supporting my town means I have to sacrifice a hundred dollars a month on food taxes, you're out of your mind. I pay enough of my hard earned money in taxes as it is around here and what am I getting in return? Not much,there is very little to show for it. I agree we can not compare our city to others because it is not the same situation,BUT, I find the competition from other towns should make us work harder to find solutions for Portland rather than sitting around pointing out other cities advantages...The last thing we need is another gas station or fast food chain...we are going to have to expand our expectations of this town and strive to accomplish them rather than just complaining about what isn't working or what isn't fair. The beer situation isn't going to change anytime soon, so get used to it and look for another solution

MG,
I agree with some of what you say but I don't think our government is that bad. We have two good county commissioners and our local government is hardworking, they debate these issues at nearly every council meeting. Above all they have respect for each other unlike the council in Gallatin where 80 percent of the meeting is filled with rhetoric and name calling. One of the main problems I see is that the county government has for the most part ignored the needs of Portland. The Expo Center would have never helped Portland but thankfully it didn't pass. We need some help from the rest of the county to take advantage of Portland's resources.

The tax argument, location argument, and so forth have been discussed at length on this site and other venues for years.

As I see it, Portland does not grow because of Portland. The attitude of the people here is usually negative against businesses. Customers are usually beggars or cheapskates, wanting any legitimate business to give products and services for below-cost pricing, or patrons will travel out of town to pay more, much more for the same thing, often threatening local business owners that they will do so unless they get their way. Fairness is not a consideration. It is a one-sided street, and there is a certain humor many see if a local business fails.

Also, local leadership and politics is ruining the city. While some issues are debated and grandstanded adnauseum, other nearby cities move forward and steal the show.

Portland has a cultural problem. It treats itself like a bedroom community, not a city. It goes shopping elsewhere, not because opportunities do not exist in Portland, but because it is the cultural thing to go elsewhere. Portland shops in Gallatin, Franklin, and Rivergate. Those towns, however, do not shop Portland, generally speaking. Portland is not a destination town, and it won't be for some time. Neighboring towns actually have a strong distaste for Portland and see it often as backwoods, due in large measure to how Portland has treated them in sporting events.

In many ways, Portland has lost the fight for some development. The center for business in the region is changing away from Portland.

Also, real estate values do not reflect actual value in the area. Portland is overpriced, both in rentals and sales of commercial property.

The Chamber is not as well organized as surrounding areas, and does not have a local focus as much as it should. Some changes have been made, but not many. It is comprised mostly of banks, realtors, and insurance agents.

The schools do not support local businesses. In fact, the administrations of some of the schools are anti-local. I believe this has also been discussed at length.

Zoning is pathetic. It does not allow prime business properties to evolve into a better enterprise zone. Buildings stand vacant, with owners jacking up rents, refusing to make adequate repairs, and in some cases not allowing legitimate tenants to lease at all. Every 5 minutes a church splits into 4 more and any new, reasonably price property is suddenly a church meeting hall. Then, some zoning laws prohibit businesses from opening nearby because of the church locations.

There.... that is a list to start this discussion. Not complete, but a beginning. I am sure many will totally and completely disagree without even a thought of consideration.

Terry,

Again here is the "White House is right on the Interstate" arguement. That doesn't fly with me and here is why.

When you say that I think of communities like Springfield, Greenbrier, Lafayette, Gallatin....None of which have interstate access. So that arguement does not fly with me....it is just another excuse.

Do I think we need a Civic Center right now? No I do not. However, I do not think we define the growth of our city by having a Civic Center as it sounds like you are doing.

The growth of our city is defined by the limits we allow our politicians to set on us. We can become every bit as viable as those cities when we drop the excuses and develop a plan of growth. The things you mention are very important as part of a larger plan. Is there any plan right now? If so what is it? My guess is there is not a plan because we the general public have not demanded one be developed.

We are not in the back woods anymore....time to get it together or our community will die.

I am not against growth and I am very much for change of vision for Portland.My vision for Portland is a sewer system that works,not just patched,and an extra garbage truck that can be pulled into service the minute one of the others breaks down.I would love to see growth but not going in debt(3-4 million for a civic center)to accomplish it.I am very much for the raising of the sales tax,but lets use it to fix what is broken in our town before spending it on fun.Our city workers do a great job,let's give them something to get the job with.Three things you need to be successful,location,location,and location.We are 3-4 miles from I-65.White House is right on it.I'm not saying we can't be as good as them,we just need to take a different approach.Play to OUR strengths,Portland's people.

Terry,

That is such a cop out.

what does what people make in White House and Gallatin have to do with anything. Those communities have not always been growing communities....They decided to change and that is exactly what they did......and they are growing. Its because of leadership. We need new leadership in Portland with vision for the future, and how to accomplish that vision.

I learned something a long time ago....people will only rise to their level of expectation....I guess we see where your expectations lie!!!

We need to take a lesson from these communities that are all around us growing, and we are not.

Daniel, you have hit a big part of it DIRECTLY on the head.....for once...I entirely agree with your post.!! very well said.

They are supposed to start building it in January or February

What's the projected date on the Walgreens store?
Is it still coming here?

They wanted to move the building because Walgreen's is taking over the property and they donated it to the city but the city would have to move it. The building was to be used for a community center but it will cost almost as much to move it as a new one would and they are restraints as to where the old building could be placed. The gas is higher because of sales tax, the other stuff you mention is basically up to your opinion

I recently moved here from a small town out west, and I have lived in small towns most of my life. What I find hard to understand is the amount of gas stations (all 10-15 cents higher than anywhere else) and the fast food restaurants. Is there a possiblity to bring anything to this town that is actually family oriented (like a Bowling Alley or a SIT DOWN restaurant) that will also bring in revenue? Coming from an outsider who hasn't lived here very long, the town doesn't have much to offer than a lot of industries, which should be helping to bring in revenue, but isn't. Couldn't the Ponderosa building be turned into something different? Being new here, I'm not really sure why the talk about moving the building, so if someone could please explain, that would help to understand more.

There's been lots of talk about how White House has done this or Gallatin has done that.We are not White House ,and we are not Gallatin.Our per capita income is much lower than either of these towns.Let's focus on being Portland.Take the situation that we are in and make the best of it.Start with the basics and make them the best we possibly can,then move on to the things like civic centers and the like.Everyone cannot afford to drive a mercedes just as every town cannot afford to have all the perks.I'm not saying stay like we are, just prioritize the things to be done.If we start by doing the small,basic things right,then we will experience healthy growth without putting such a burden on the taxpayers.Don't go spending money on every shiny bauble that comes along while ignoring the basic necessities that every town should have.

We can't grow because we're on the state line and instead of allowing beer sales on Sunday to create extra revenue, we want to raise sales tax again. Let's think about it, we already lose a lot of business to Kentucky because sales tax is too high and now we think raising it will help? I seriously doubt it. If there was as much attention paid to bringing in true revenue producers as their is to commercial and industries things might be different, but still not perfect. You can build industries from here to orlinda but it won't help us out much because half of the people working there are from kentucky and they don't spend a dime here in income or sales tax. Back to the beer thing, it's funny how so much is made over Political Correctness and Christmas. Religous people will tell you if you don't want to celebrate Christmas then don't but those same people will say no to Sunday Beer sales instead of taking their own advice on the Christmas issue, if you don't like it, don't take part in it. But the game of politics is a game of hypocrisy in general, in just depends on what you want to sell out for.

I think Portland has much bigger issues to deal with at this time, instead of moving a building.

First issue is getting some common sense people in office in this town, who can manage this city to the point of it growing. How is it that most of the cities around us have figured out a way to grow...and we can't. Can someone explain that to me?

No excuses either......I just want an answer....How is it that every city around us is growing and we aren't?

Thanks

The deal with the Ponderosa building turned out to not be such a good deal after all. When that whole thing started, we thought we might be able to get this building set up and ready to go for a little more than $100,000. A few things changed that figure.

The only place we could put the building where all the roads were wide enough to transport the building was in Meadowbrook Park. The cost to take down the traffic lights to allow the building through downtown and then put them back up added a bit (sorry I don't have the exact figures in front of me). We then found out that they were going to gut all the wiring out of the building so we would have to pay to rewire it. Meadowbrook also did not have real good parking facilities for a building like this either so that was something else we were going to have to pay for. By the time we added it all up, the bill was going to be over $400,000. At that price, it just wasn't going to be feasible for us to do it.

I heard the plan is off, it was going to cost $350,000 including the electric work to move the building and there were restrictions on where it could be placed because of the size.